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Contra Trump – by Harry Binswanger

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53 minutes ago, Claire1964 said:

I don't know know what epitomolue is saying, but I'm saying Trump is definitely worth the vote.  Can anyone name one thing Clinton has accomplished?

Trump is not worth a vote either, or at least it's not possible to say who is worse. Trump hasn't accomplished anything either - he's a crooked businessman. At least people should stop thinking about lesser evilism and stand for something.

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He's not a crooked businessman.  Accomplishments:  he's brought the deadly effect of PC to the forefront; he opposes ISIS while Hillary can't seem to acknowledge the group; there's much more.  What has Hillary done?

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Those aren't accomplishments. The thing about Trump is that what he says is for popularity. It isn't out of principle, it isn't even out of ability to accomplish what he says. His game is to make you believe without evidence, and it works on many people. That's how he runs his businesses.

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12 hours ago, Claire1964 said:

Not an argument from intimidation.  I gave brief highlights.  It could be expanded if anyone has questions.

You don't need to explain lies ripped from the headlines of right wing blogs. You need to prove them. Let's start with the main one: Bill Clinton raped somebody. If your next post contains something other than irrefutable proof of that statement, that will be the last post of yours I read.

Edited by Nicky

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It's not up to me to open your eyes.  If you have the stomach to vote for a killer and thief like Hillary, by all means, do so.  BTW, you have no proof of your statements re. Trump.

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Claire,

I've been thinking that the best reason not to support Trump is his stated intention of using antitrust to silence his political opposition. My observation has been that soi-disant Objectivist Trumplings, though few in number, are whizzes at rationalization. Can I expect one from you by noon west coast time today? That's a bit over 3 1/2 hours from now as I write.

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Is the question here truly a defense of Hillary Clinton? I wouldn't attempt such a thing. I'm not interested in defending her, and wouldn't vote for her except... she's not Donald Trump.

From aught I can tell, Clinton is a typical progressive politician. Which isn't great news (obviously), but it's also not very different from the last 100+ years of governance: a slow steady slide into statism. Trump, on the other hand, seems to me to have the trappings and the imagination of a would-be dictator. His various proposals (deportations; building walls; creating databases; re-instituting torture; various mercantilist schemes; etc.) are horrific. And maybe he wouldn't do any of those things, and maybe he has no intention of trying, but I don't intend to put my faith in that. He strikes me as a bully and a thug, who uses intimidation (along with lawsuits and eminent domain) to achieve his ends. As a businessman, he seems a flim-flam artist, tawdry and cheap and clueless. I think Trump would be utterly disastrous to this country, both domestically and internationally, and while his election might not mean immediate dictatorship, I think it would speed up the American decline immensely. I think his nomination -- his very presence in our political discourse -- has already done damage to our institutions, and I fear that worse must be coming.

Clinton's not a great answer to our present malady, but I don't see how she can make things much worse than any other politician the country would presently elect. Trump? Is a steep dive into the unknown at least, and (if appearances are to be believed) might represent the true beginning of the end for many of our cherished liberties.

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So, you see Trump, who supports our right to bear arms and who denounces Muslim invaders, as a tyrant.  But Hillary, who wants to take your guns and refused to give aid to Americans being killed, who is inviting more killers into our country, is a better choice?

I honestly cannot answer that kind of thinking.  It's foreign to me.

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4 hours ago, Claire1964 said:

It's not up to me to open your eyes.  If you have the stomach to vote for a killer and thief like Hillary, by all means, do so.  BTW, you have no proof of your statements re. Trump.

Like failed casinos, abusing eminent domain, a shady "university", admitted mob ties and rationalizing it as a sign of strength, calls to enhance libel laws? Trump is a media machine, I hope you use secondary resources to get your info. 

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Spoiler

 

Failed casinos; name any creator who has not failed?

Shady u; exactly what is shady?

Embrace libel law; yes, he opposes lying, which is Hillary's favorite hobby.

He's not perfect, but is a supporter of killers really preferable?

Still no one has found one single accomplishment of Hillary's. I don't think anyone will.

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(Very well, I'll try to be courteous. I should have known from your admiration for Mr. Trump that you set a very high standard of gentility, as Little Marco, Lyin' Ted and Megyn Kelley can attest.)

Esteemed Ms. 1964:

May I be so bold as to ask how you reconcile your admiration for Mr. Trump and for Objectivism with his announced intention to use antitrust to silence critics? To be even bolder, could I be so presumptuous as to beg for an answer without any tu-quoques?

And if I may presume further on your valuable time, I suspect that this is what Euiol meant by "shady."

Edited by Reidy

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So, you see Trump, who supports our right to bear arms and who denounces Muslim invaders, as a tyrant.  But Hillary, who wants to take your guns and refused to give aid to Americans being killed, who is inviting more killers into our country, is a better choice?

I honestly cannot answer that kind of thinking.  It's foreign to me.

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Ready, Trump is not perfect. Compare to Hillary:

Fired from Watergate for lying

Whitewater

Ruined the women her husband raped

Refused aid to Ambassador who was tortured and raped

Lied to families of the dead

Endangered national security with her emails

Ended up with $6 billion of State Department money on her watch

Supports continuation of socialized medicine

Takes money to support Arab countries

Denies Islamic terrorism

Wants more killers in our country

Wants to deny us our right to bear arms

 

How does Trump stack up against her, with vague unproven allegations agInst his U, with his support of eminent domain, which has been used for years.  I disagree with Tramp's stand on antitrust, but Hillary has a lot more against her.

 

Hope I answered your question.  So far, no one had answered mine.

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37 minutes ago, Claire1964 said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Failed casinos; name any creator who has not failed?

Shady u; exactly what is shady?

Embrace libel law; yes, he opposes lying, which is Hillary's favorite hobby.

He's not perfect, but is a supporter of killers really preferable?

Still no one has found one single accomplishment of Hillary's. I don't think anyone will.

Failed casinos are his biggest success, he hasn't done better.

Shady, as in not really being invested in his business or offering what he promises.

Libel laws, so people stop being mean to him, not for authentic worry about slander. Trump lies, too.

You left out mob ties. Trump has worked with killers, he supports killers, too (I hope you aren't suggesting muslim -immigrants- are killers). 

EDIT: Hillary doesn't deny terrorism or desires to "take away your guns", just to point out two of your points are wrong. "Wants more killers" is a strawman. Hillary is indeed bad, but it's not like she'd be a dictator. Trump wouldn't either. Both would be equally as bad.

Edited by Eiuol

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Quote

Hope I answered your question.

You didn't. I expressly asked you to do it without any tu-quoques.

To take up an earlier post of yours:

Quote

 

So, you see Trump, who supports our right to bear arms and who denounces Muslim invaders, as a tyrant.

 

No, would-be tyrant.

 

 

Quote

But Hillary, who wants to take your guns and refused to give aid to Americans being killed, who is inviting more killers into our country, is a better choice?

No, I don't think anybody here would say that. We have at least two alternatives - vote for a different candidate; don't vote for a presidential candidate at all.

Quote

I honestly cannot answer that kind of thinking.  It's foreign to me.

Maybe you can get it deported.

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16 hours ago, Reidy said:
No, I don't think anybody here would say that.

I would. Hillary is a better choice than Trump. Not because there's anything special about Hillary...any mainstream Democrat (or Republican) would be a better choice than Trump.

It's not even worth discussing the merits of Hillary's platform...it would be like discussing the platform of whoever ran against Hitler: the platform was not the reason for voting for that guy. The reason was that he wasn't Hitler.

Edited by Nicky

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Does the following video calling for you to vote for Trump:

A) make you feel sick - its pure cheese

B) make you think twice - Trump might be controversial but he wants America to be successful

C) other, explain below.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Jon Southall said:

Does the following video calling for you to vote for Trump:

A) make you feel sick - its pure cheese

B) make you think twice - Trump might be controversial but he wants America to be successful

C) other, explain below.

 

 

Selectivity can create almost any impression.

For example, with a little music, narration, and a some intelligent cutting, you'd swear you would get to watch a happy movie if you went to see [The] Shining:

 

 

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1 hour ago, StrictlyLogical said:

Selectivity can create almost any impression.

For example, with a little music, narration, and a some intelligent cutting, you'd swear you would get to watch a happy movie if you went to see [The] Shining:

A point well made SL. We only have the daily news as proof of the contagion of selectivity in our daily lives.

If I were an American, I honestly wouldn't be able to vote for Trump or Clinton. Out of the two, Trump is more genuine, which is bad enough.

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Trump isn't more genuine, he's just better at media manipulation. You see, that set of clips is interesting, but it goes to show he's a man of many faces and contradictions. It all depends on who he's talking to.

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4 hours ago, Jon Southall said:

Does the following video calling for you to vote for Trump:

A) make you feel sick - its pure cheese

B) make you think twice - Trump might be controversial but he wants America to be successful

C) other, explain below.

C).  It's a 30 minute video with a cliche in the title. Makes me feel like I should watch that recut Shining trailer and then move on with my life.

 

edit: strike that, I'm not moving on. I'm gonna find someone who never heard about The Shining, show them that trailer, and then film them while they watch the movie.

Edited by Nicky

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