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dadmonson

Need concrete examples of virtues being practiced and virtues being violated

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Benjamin Franklin wanted to achieve moral perfection so he wrote in a journal and marked in his journal everytime he violated one of his virtues... I believe this is one of the reasons he achieved such great success.  I want to do something similar but with the Objectivist virtues and instead of using a journal I will be using Habitica.com.

I need more examples of instances in which I can mark when I have practiced a virtue and instances I can mark when I have violated a virtue... Can you think of anymore?

Here is the list I have so far:

Productivity/Purposefulness

Doing items on my to-do list

Going to work

Going to work on time

Violations of Productivity/Purposefulness

Spending more than 30 minutes pottering around when I have better things to do

Not working on a project for more than 3 days in a row because it didn't excite me as much as it did at the beginning.

Honesty

Telling the truth when it's hard

Violations of Honesty

Lying

Justice

Listening to people who deserve it

Apologizing when I have done someone wrong in some way

Disagreeing with someone who disparages views that I agree with

Violations of Justice

Remaining silent when someone disparages my views

Independence

Paying my bills

Looking at my bank account

Violations of independence

Buying something I can't afford

__________________________________________

I can't think of any unique example for rationality and integrity, since rationality and integrity  encompasses every example I just listed.  Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated!

Edited by dadmonson

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Rationality is embedded in creating the approach. (Could be one of the items on your to-do list for a term.) The Franklin Planner approach recommends starting each day with a block of time for Planning and Solitude, a time to reflect on what is on the to-do/appointment lists, what should be on the lists, what on the lists might need to be reconsidered or reallocated to a different day, etc.

The to-do/appointment distinction is to separate established/scheduled time commitments with others from to-do preparation for a particular appointment. If a to-do is not complete, it may convert to rescheduling an appointment to ensure it is properly prepared for.

Planning and Solitude is a time to look at, for instance, Honesty/Violations thereof. Honesty does not involve telling the thief where the silverware is hidden. Dishonest does not include lying to protect the innocent. Further reflection integrates new understandings and considerations into the framework of the overall goal of developing moral perfection (integrity).

 

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23 hours ago, dadmonson said:

Productivity/Purposefulness

Integrate everything you do into a seamless whole. David Allen's GTD methodology is a great way to do this. Amy Peikoff did an interview with Dave Allen, if you're interested you can listen to it here.

Always set specific work goals,  such as: 'I want to find out how to do X in less time and with better results'.

23 hours ago, dadmonson said:

Honesty

Not lying to yourself about where you are in relation to your goals. If applicable, don't be afraid to say 'I'm not where I want to be', or 'I have a long way to go'.

Don't pretend to like things that you don't. For example, if a friend wants to discuss a movie you dislike, simply tell him that it's not your kind of thing, and change the topic. 

23 hours ago, dadmonson said:

Independence

Strive to achieve a real understanding of the principles that you practice regularly, even if they were learned from other people. You can't make full use of a piece of information unless you know exactly what it refers to and why it's true.

23 hours ago, dadmonson said:

integrity

Form principles for your work, your romantic life, your thinking etc. and follow them. This virtue refers to all principles, not just moral ones. Check this post to learn how to form good principles.

Stick to rational principles, even when it's hard. Weakness of will is weakness of vision; if you don't feel like respecting a principle that you know is true, remind yourself of the consequences that will follow if you break it. "I'm not brave enough to be a coward" - Ayn Rand

Pride

Don't create unearned guilt by blaming yourself for unintentional mistakes. Learn from them & move on.

The Ben Franklin exercise that you mentioned.

Seek the best in anything. Make a list of values (work, love, art, food, health etc.) and go over it daily/weekly. As yourself, 'how can I improve the quality of this area?'. In art, it might mean creating a reading list or a watchlist. In love, picking out some special lingerie for your kindred soul. In health, choosing to use the stairs instead of the elevator.

Edited by KyaryPamyu

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On 8/2/2017 at 2:56 PM, dadmonson said:

Benjamin Franklin wanted to achieve moral perfection so he wrote in a journal and marked in his journal everytime he violated one of his virtues... I believe this is one of the reasons he achieved such great success.  I want to do something similar but with the Objectivist virtues...

Ayn Rand made two lists of virtues, one published in The Virtue of Selfishness, the other unpublished in her Journal, in a section called, "The Moral Basis Of Individualism."

The published list of virtues includes: Reason, Purpose, Self-Esteem, Rationality, Productiveness, and Pride.

The unpublished list of virtues includes: Integrity [which Rand described as, "the first, greatest and noblest of all virtues"], Courage, Honesty, Honor, Self-confidence, Strength, Justice, Wisdom, and Self-respect.


The following links pertain to the moral source of virtues. The first directly addresses your question:

virtue.jpg

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2 hours ago, Regi F. said:

The published list of virtues includes: Reason, Purpose, Self-Esteem

These three are actually the values that make up the Objectivist code of ethics. In The Objectivist Ethics, these values are related to the virtues as follows:

Productiveness corresponds to Purpose

Pride corresponds to Self-Esteem

Rationality, Honesty, Independence, Integrity and Justice correspond to Reason

2 hours ago, Regi F. said:

The unpublished list of virtues includes: Integrity [which Rand described as, "the first, greatest and noblest of all virtues"], Courage, Honesty, Honor, Self-confidence, Strength, Justice, Wisdom, and Self-respect.

At the time she wrote that list, she considered Independence to be the primary virtue - the others beings aspects of it. 

Later, she developed her mature ethical theory, which states that you can only pursue your self interest in consonance with reality - not it every way that might sound right to you. Therefore, the primary (and only) real virtue becomes rationality, and the others, including idependence, become aspects of rationality - of acting in consonance with reality.

After quickly scanning the list above, courage and strenght are aspects of Integrity. Honor, self-confidence & self-respect are aspects of Pride. Wisdom is a result of being rational.

According to Peikoff in his Advanced Seminars on OPAR, Rand didn't claim that her list of virtues was complete. She was open to additions as long as somebody could prove that something was a virtue. Based on her own life experience, she never discovered another principle that was a genuine virtue.

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18 hours ago, KyaryPamyu said:

These three are actually the values that make up the Objectivist code of ethics. In The Objectivist Ethics, these values are related to the virtues as follows:

Productiveness corresponds to Purpose

Pride corresponds to Self-Esteem

Rationality, Honesty, Independence, Integrity and Justice correspond to Reason

 

Yes of course. The exact quote is: "The three cardinal values of the Objectivist ethics—the three values which, together, are the means to and the realization of one's ultimate value, one's own life——are: Reason, Purpose, Self-Esteem, with their three corresponding virtues: Rationality, Productiveness, Pride."

I do not agree with your analysis of Rand's ethical development, however.

Randy

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4 hours ago, Regi F. said:

I do not agree with your analysis of Rand's ethical development, however.

It is not my own analysis, but to my knowledge it is accurate. You can read more about it in an article called Ayn Rand’s Ethics - From The Fountainhead to Atlas Shrugged by Darryl Wright.

A general discussion of her evolving view of the virtues can also be found on page 12 of this exerpt.

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2 hours ago, KyaryPamyu said:

"It is not my own analysis"

Mine is. I do not form my opinions about Rand or her philosophy based on anything other than what Rand wrote herself, and what I know factually about her life. I certainly would not rely on anything her philosophical enemies write about her which many of those referenced in the links you provided are, perhaps the worst are those from ARI.

Why not form your own ideas using your own reason examining what Rand herself wrote, instead of accepting other's opinions about her second-hand?

Thanks for the comment, Kyary. (Is that right?)

Randy

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On 14.09.2017 at 10:00 PM, Regi F. said:

the other unpublished in her Journal

 

7 hours ago, Regi F. said:

Why not form your own ideas using your own reason examining what Rand herself wrote

Randy,

Have you read her own journal entry for September 18, 1943? It's titled Theorem I: The Basic Alternative.

As I said above, to my knowledge the claims of those 'philosophical enemies' of Rand are accurate.

Edited by KyaryPamyu

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7 hours ago, KyaryPamyu said:

As I said above, to my knowledge the claims of those 'philosophical enemies' of Rand are accurate.

Kyary,

I wasn't trying to change your mind, only expressing mine. Appreciate the comments.

Randy

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3 hours ago, softwareNerd said:

I don't understand what aspect you're disagreeing with and why? 

It doesn't really matter; however, I disagree with any claim that what Rand meant was other than what she planely stated or implies that her fundamental views changed over time. She said her fundamental views did not change. I do not have any objection to those who disagree with her, I disagree with her myself. I only disagree with those who claim to embrace her philosophy but make statements that contradicit it.

Nevertheless, it is not my responsibility to correct other's views and I have no intention of doing so.

Thanks for the question.

Randy

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10 minutes ago, Regi F. said:

I only disagree with those who claim to embrace her philosophy but make statements that contradicit it.

One can agree with Objectivism 100% and still think Rand modified her views over time. I assume you do not see a contradiction in that.

Similarly, one can agree with Objectivism 100% and still think that Rand was wrong on some conclusions, even where she used her philosophy of Objectivism as part of reaching those wrong conclusions.

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9 hours ago, softwareNerd said:

One can agree with Objectivism 100% and still think Rand modified her views over time. I assume you do not see a contradiction in that.

If you are referring to her fundamental philosophical views, she didn't modify them. If you are talking about non-essentials, it doesn't matter.

9 hours ago, softwareNerd said:

Similarly, one can agree with Objectivism 100% and still think that Rand was wrong on some conclusions, even where she used her philosophy of Objectivism as part of reaching those wrong conclusions.

I'm not interesed in her personal decisions or tastes. I'm only interested in her philosophy. If one agrees 100% with her philosophy they cannot also disagree with anything that philosophy teaches. I believe that includes whenever she was speaking as a philosopher and expressing her views.

I disagree with many things Rand said as a philosopher. I'm not an Objectivist (or any other kind of, "-ist." Ironically, I usually side with Rand against those who call themselves Objectivists but contradict what she wrote.

That's my view. It doesn't have to be yours.

Randy

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