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Is Colorado a lost cause?

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On 10/10/2017 at 5:18 PM, Nicky said:

I bet that's taken wildly out of context...to the point where it's a lie.

If I had to guess, the context was the Arab Israeli conflict? And she called the people attacking Israel "savages", for committing an act of aggression. Not exactly the same as a populist nationalist, catering to the base desire of white supremacists in the US to keep Mexicans out, now is it?

You still have yet to establish Donald Trump making immigration into a race issue. For him it is, and has always been, an issue of primitive nations acting against the interests of the United States. For Ayn Rand, too, it was an issue of primitive Arab nations acting against the interest of Israel. My $100 bet still stands... find Trump making immigration into a race issue and the money is yours.

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If being rich makes one a capitalist, does that mean you would've voted for George Soros, if he ran against Trump? Soros is worth about 10 times more than Trump.

Soros' fortune comes primarily from causing turmoil in countries through his financed and backed "color revolutions" and then shorting the market in those countries. Additionally, he collaborates directly with the CIA and other government organizations to engage in a sort of international insider trading. I don't know what you'd call what he does (other than meddling) but it's certainly not capitalism.

Even supposing that Soros were a capitalist, his political positions would have made him abhorrent as a candidate. Open borders, foreign intervention. "Invade the world, invite the world." Your assertion was "Trump is not a capitalist," not "Trump is the best capitalist ever" nor that "Trump is the richest candidate who would ever run for office." Now you have subtly shifted the goalposts into saying that unless he is the richest man of all time, more than any rich people who espouse leftist views, that also makes him "not a capitalist" or at the very least "not worth voting for."

Also, while we are on the topic of racism, Soros has funded neo-Nazi-linked groups in Ukraine during the coup in 2014. Does that make him a racist as well?

Edited by CartsBeforeHorses

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On 10/10/2017 at 6:08 PM, Nicky said:

I didn't insinuate anything. In general, you don't need to try and read between the lines of my posts. I'm gonna tell you what I think directly. You can count on that much.

And, since you asked, here's my impression of you, based on this brief exchange: you're not a Capitalist, you're a right wing nationalist. I base that on two things:

1. You called me a "leftist". Only Americans who ever call me a leftist are entrenched right wing nationalists.

That's a form of circular argumentation. The only Americans who ever call you a leftist are entrenched right wing nationalists. I called you a leftist, therefore I'm a right-wing nationalist.

The only Americans who call me a right-wing nationalist are leftists. You called me a right-wing nationalist, therefore you are a leftist. Obviously that argument does not work, but that's what you just did.

For the record, I called you a leftist because you used a traditional leftist argumentation tactic. Namely, making a non-race issue into a race issue, and then proceeding to call your opponent wrong simply because he's a "racist". Race is not a valid concept to start with, as you correctly point out.

Even if I was a racist, that wouldn't automatically make my arguments incorrect.

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No one else ever does that, because I'm so obviously not a leftist. Conversely, the only Americans who call me a "right winger" are entrenched leftists.

That's because both these groups are indoctrinated into this cult-like belief that there can be only two political ideologies: theirs and the enemy's. And anyone who disagrees with even the tiniest portion of their ideology must belong with the enemy.

I would not call open immigration a "tiny portion" of the left's ideology. In fact, they rely on mass immigration, both legal and illegal, for much of their votes. The American population would overwhelmingly reject socialism otherwise.

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2. You're trying to distinguish between hating a "race" (an invalid concept in itself, biological race is an antiquated way of classifying people)

You're the one who made this discussion into a race issue, by bringing up the irrelevant topic of white nationalism, and Trump's supposed appeals to that group which you have yet to provide evidence of. I agree that race is an antiquated way of classifying people.

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and hating people from a geographic area like Latin America or the Middle East.

That's a big clue. No individualist would ever feel the need to do that.

Are there individual capitalists, libertarians, and people who use reason in Latin America? Sure, that's why I advocated for an immigration system which vets individuals as individuals. Nevertheless, most of the countries in Latin America are socialist, and most of the people they send over here are poor socialists who they need off their doles. Mexico would've had a revolution a long time ago if they couldn't use the United States as an escape valve.

Edited by CartsBeforeHorses

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On 10/10/2017 at 6:43 PM, softwareNerd said:

Well, linking to HandyHandle, who sporadically visits the forum to curse its members, to curse ARI, and to embed a link to his anti-ARi site makes me wonder if you're him. If you are, that would make you a white supremacist.

As if nobody would link to his blog other than himself? Crazy, it's almost like he makes a compelling argument or something. I agree that HandyHandle is most likely a white supremacist, but that does not make his other arguments on immigration incorrect.

For the record, HandyHandle is using a misguided strategy. For one, his race-based arguments turn people off who otherwise might agree with him, or at the least give more thought to the other, more valid points that he makes. Two, there is no convincing people who are indoctrinated in a cult. The ARI functions much like a cult led by the Ayatollahs Yaron Brook and Leonard Peikoff, who squandered one of the greatest gifts that somebody could ever be given... the intellectual heritage of a woman who did NOT advocate for much of what ARI currently does.

Edited by CartsBeforeHorses

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