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MisterSwig

How Nazis Recruit Normie Conservatives For Meme Wars

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Cart, you're the kinda dude that would go to a neo-Nazi rally and shout "blood and soil! Blood and soil!" and the be all, what I'm not a Nazi, I'm just supporting cardiovascular health and botany! Doesn't matter if I'm standing alongside racists and shouting their slogans. After all, blood is pretty important, and soil carries a lot of nutrients... don't call me a racist! Blood and soil! Blood and soil!

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5 hours ago, Grames said:

Do you mind if I ask if you were also hectoring and lecturing the participants of Black Lives Matter like this?  Because if you didn't treat everyone equally, you are probably a racist.

To borrow an analogy from Ayn Rand, I hung out with BLM, then I yearned to go back to the objectivists. Then I hung out with "the objectivists" for five minutes and I yearned to go back to BLM. At least BLM has a legitimate set of grievances in opposing police brutality, and didn't peddle racial IQ junk science.

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7 hours ago, Grames said:

Do you mind if I ask if you were also hectoring and lecturing the participants of Black Lives Matter like this?  Because if you didn't treat everyone equally, you are probably a racist.

As a matter of fact, my best hiking buddy (a white guy) spreads BLM memes and the WHITE PRIVILEGE and INHERENT BIAS memes. He's been indoctrinated by the Left. He does it on Facebook and in person. I told him to his face that he sounds like a racist. We have long discussions about it. I don't think I convinced him, but he seems to choose his memes more carefully now.

I may be hectoring you. But I'm not saying that you are pathetic. Only that you sound that way. When Martin Luther King was being oppressed by whites, did he spread the IT'S OKAY TO BE BLACK meme? Did he spread the BLACK PRIDE meme? I don't remember reading anything like that. I recall that he spread the CIVIL RIGHTS and FREEDOM memes. Perhaps the oppressed white folk of today should learn a thing or two from the oppressed black people of yesteryear. You don't sound smarter to me. The smart ones aren't anonymously spreading race-based memes. They are standing up to the Left face-to-face and spreading the FREE SPEECH and RACIST IDENTITY POLITICS memes.

Edited by MisterSwig

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2 hours ago, 2046 said:

To borrow an analogy from Ayn Rand, I hung out with BLM, then I yearned to go back to the objectivists. Then I hung out with "the objectivists" for five minutes and I yearned to go back to BLM. At least BLM has a legitimate set of grievances in opposing police brutality, and didn't peddle racial IQ junk science.

Most of the publicized cases BLM went on about were justified shootings, starting with the shooting of Micheal Brown in Ferguson, Missouri.  So no, they were not legitimate.  Race denialism is not legitimate either, its just a manifestation of leftist-utopian blank slate theory, the kind that denies there is human nature (denial of the slate to employ the metaphor) .

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On 11/6/2017 at 1:04 PM, Craig24 said:

" It IS ok to be white but it's ok to be non white too" would be my reply. 

On 11/6/2017 at 3:55 PM, MisterSwig said:

Sorry, I didn't address this. Okay, let's say you throw that addendum in their faces, which by the way is already being done. They aren't going to care, because they agree with you.

But they DON'T agree with me.  If they are neo nazis they don't think it's ok to be non white.  I thought that was understood.  Am I missing something?

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Craig24 said:

Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing the second half of my statement that you partially quoted. I didn't make up that bit about the white race being the finest race. It's a fundamental belief of the Church of Creativity. They believe in race loyalty. It's okay to be loyal to your own race, just don't mix with other races, especially the white one, because the white one is "nature's finest." Also, notice that Hitler wasn't so interested in gassing the blacks. But those white-skinned Jews, my god, they had to go.

You're on the wrong side of the line, man. And it's really, really disturbing that you don't get it.

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The point of the meme "ITS OKAY TO BE WHITE" is to let leftist racists reveal their own anti-white animus by objecting to the modest idea that it is merely okay to be white.   That anti-white animus is real and pervasive in leftist strongholds such as universities and big cities.  The essence of your (MisterSwig) objection to the IOTBW meme is that awareness of that fact leads to bad places.   I hold that willfully averting our eyes and minds from dangerous knowledge is evasion, and evasion is just another way to get to a different bad place.

I prefer knowledge and awareness, for myself and others.

edit:  Normies aren't so easy to make into racists as you fear.

Edited by Grames
clarity

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No one of significance says it's not okay to be white. Embracing slogans created by neo-Nazis on 4chan is the dumbest way to combat racism. You are a smart guy, Grames, you literally are so afraid of "white guilt" that you have your willful blinders on regarding the origin and context of the slogan.

Things like this are what drive the normies into the hands of the leftists, and why normal "peace and love" type people will continue to protest side by side with hardened leftist nihilists to combat racism.

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8 minutes ago, Grames said:

The point of the meme "ITS OKAY TO BE WHITE" is to let leftist racists reveal their own anti-white animus by objecting to the modest idea that it is merely okay to be white.

And how's that going? The dominant response from the Left is that the campaign is a 4CHAN PRANK or NAZIS CREATING DIVISION. And their addendum is the same as yours: IT'S OKAY TO BE NON-WHITE TOO.

Is the point to incite the dumbest members of the Left into saying "It's NOT okay to be white" and then make meme collages that you can post on image boards? Try taking a step back and observing what's actually happening, instead of what the trolls on 4chan say is happening. They aren't your friends. They are using you.

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11 minutes ago, 2046 said:

No one of significance says it's not okay to be white.

Every university administration that over reacted to this with witch hunts and counseling sessions is broadcasting to the world that is not okay to be white.

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8 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

And how's that going? The dominant response from the Left is that the campaign is a 4CHAN PRANK or NAZIS CREATING DIVISION. And their addendum is the same as yours: IT'S OKAY TO BE NON-WHITE TOO.

Is the point to incite the dumbest members of the Left into saying "It's NOT okay to be white" and then make meme collages that you can post on image boards? Try taking a step back and observing what's actually happening, instead of what the trolls on 4chan say is happening. They aren't your friends. They are using you.

The meme prompts a certain response from racist leftists but the ultimate beneficiary of witnessing that response and becoming more explicitly aware of anti-white hatred is not the leftists but everyone else.  The moral authority that leftists attempt to arrogate to themselves is thereby undermined.  That is a good result.

I find your continued attempts to make a case of guilt by association to be unpersuasive.  The meme stands alone when it is encountered.  Its names a truth and truth belongs to no one.

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5 hours ago, 2046 said:

Cart, you're the kinda dude that would go to a neo-Nazi rally and shout "blood and soil! Blood and soil!" and the be all, what I'm not a Nazi, I'm just supporting cardiovascular health and botany!

And you're the kinda dude that passively trolls people and gets away with it because of the toxic environment that people like you have created... and perpetuate. You respond to legitimate arguments not with legitimate arguments, but with genetic fallacy assaults on things' alleged origin. And then you fail to consistently apply your fallacy...

5 hours ago, 2046 said:

At least BLM has a legitimate set of grievances in opposing police brutality

I agree that BLM has a legitimate set of grievances, but the movement has been infiltrated by cop-killing terrorists. It also originated based on the "hands up, don't shoot" lie of Michael Brown who attacked a cop and witnesses report did not have his hands up at all... and officer Wilson was exonerated.

If you oppose saying "its okay to be white" because of a few bad apples, then you should also oppose "black lives matter" under the same circumstances. At least I am consistent in saying that both phrases, and both groups, have legitimate grievances apart from the few crazies in the movement.

And IOTBW doesn't have a legitimate set of grievances? There isn't an anti-white bias in our culture? When movies and shows like Dear White People exist? When white people are blamed for every mass shooting carried out by a white person? When affirmative action exists?

5 hours ago, 2046 said:

and didn't peddle racial IQ junk science.

Still waiting on you or anybody else to give me a single number which disproves anything that I've said.

Edited by CartsBeforeHorses

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18 minutes ago, Grames said:

The meme stands alone when it is encountered.  Its names a truth and truth belongs to no one.

What truth does it name? When standing alone, out of context, it is merely arbitrary. If I were running from an enemy and trying to hide among a crowd of black people, my white skin would not be okay for that situation. It would work against my effort to blend in with the black folk.

Edited by MisterSwig

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When the meme gets pasted up around university campuses, that establishes the context in which it is to be understood.

3 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

What truth does it name? When standing alone, out of context, it is merely arbitrary. If I were running from an enemy and trying to hide among a crowd of black people, my white skin would not be okay for that situation. It would work against my effort to blend in with the black folk

Thats a pretty lame contrivance which is irrelevant to the moral evaluation named by the word 'okay'.

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44 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

NAZIS CREATING DIVISION.

How does merely saying "it's okay to be white" create any sort of division? If they are saying that it creates division, then they are in fact the ones creating division by saying so. IOTBW should be as non-controversial a statement as "A is A."

41 minutes ago, Grames said:

Every university administration that over reacted to this with witch hunts and counseling sessions is broadcasting to the world that is not okay to be white.

I'm re-quoting this because I think it got lost in all of the noise. This is all the evidence that we need that there is an anti-white bias which needs to be addressed. A counseling session over encountering a poster with a true statement on it? Are white people that scary?

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11 minutes ago, Grames said:

Thats a pretty lame contrivance which is irrelevant to the moral evaluation named by the word 'okay'.

You're the one who said it was a stand-alone truth. Now it requires a university context. Any more restrictions before I respond again.

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8 hours ago, softwareNerd said:

It is not me, but you,  downplaying the personal responsibility that "black" people must take. You do this by making the same argument that the leftists make: i.e. that "black" people are inherently less capable for no fault of their own.

That by itself does not downplay personal responsibility. Nothing that I have said applies to the individual. An individual should always strive to better his circumstances, regardless of his race, regardless of his inherent capabilities. I have an outright disability and I've still succeeded in life, because I believed that I could and I set my mind to it. Blackness is not a disability or any sort of handicap, and even if it were, it would not be a barrier to success.

Quote

I know you say you didn't mention a cause. This is pretense; you clearly are. Not only that, with your false analogy with dog breeds, you are arguing for a specific biological and biologically-inherited cause. 

Dog breeds have arisen since humans have been around. In an even larger number of generations, we are to expect that no significant differences between groups of humans have arisen?

Of course they have. Skin color, sickle cell anemia, and hair texture are just some of these heritable characteristics. Intelligence is another such heritable characteristic, and on this science does largely agree. Applying it to race is just as trivial as applying it to families. The failure of "scientific consensus" to reach the racial conclusion is a byproduct of political correctness... the same with other "scientific consensuses" about things like secondhand smoke or global warming. Look at where the $$$ for much of science comes from... government. That inherently biases the results that government-funded scientists reach. We're in a scientific environment that is more toxic than the environment in which Galileo asserted, against the church, that the earth revolved around the sun.

Quote

What distinguishes you from the leftist is that you don't think this warrants "white-guilt" or redistribution of wealth.

Of course not. That is the only item which matters in the context of Objectivism. Objectivism is silent as to the differences between groups of men. In fact Ayn Rand even commented on the white man vs. Indians more harshly than anything that I've said...

Quote

"Indians had no right to a country merely because they were born here and then acted like savages .... Since the Indians did not have the concept of property or property rights – they didn't have a settled society, they had predominantly nomadic tribal 'cultures' – they didn't have rights to the land, and there was no reason for anyone to grant them rights that they had not conceived of and were not using."

Edited by CartsBeforeHorses

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9 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

Now it requires a university context.

It doesn't "require" a university context. A university context is where the message was posted up, and where people reacted to it with the same level of revulsion as if somebody had posted "god hates fags."

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1 hour ago, CartsBeforeHorses said:

How does merely saying "it's okay to be white" create any sort of division?

You divided the human race by skin color, and then you assigned a moral assessment to only the one skin color. That's the essence of division. It's just as divisive as saying black lives matter. And the Nazis are helping the two sides come together by indoctrinating the Right.image.jpg.8b3ef76089c1946f2731e28d0d3992e3.jpg

It's gonna take both blacks and whites working together to defeat the Jews this time.

Edited by MisterSwig

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3 hours ago, MisterSwig said:

Yes, you're missing the second half of my statement that you partially quoted. I didn't make up that bit about the white race being the finest race. It's a fundamental belief of the Church of Creativity.

"It's ok to be white" does not mean "the white race is the finest race".  What this White Supremacist Church believes isn't my problem and it isn't yours either.  Like I said, if you encounter a group of neo nazis, tell them where they can go.  Use concepts honestly.  You know what the word "selfish" actually means.  Do you dispense with the term "selfish" because the broader culture takes it to be synonymous with evil?    

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45 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

You divided the human race by skin color

Nature did that, not me.

45 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

and then you assigned a moral assessment to only the one skin color.

If I say, "aquamarine is a pretty color," that doesn't by itself imply that I've assessed any of the other colors.

45 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

It's just as divisive as saying black lives matter.

"Divisive" is an anti-concept just like the word "polarizing."

Capitalism is divisive. Doesn't mean that we shouldn't advocate for it.

45 minutes ago, MisterSwig said:

It's gonna take both blacks and whites working together to defeat the Jews this time.

No, all that will take is an end to Israel-worshiping. We can start with Yaron Brook and his "Israel-first" mentality.

Edited by CartsBeforeHorses

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2 hours ago, Grames said:

Every university administration that over reacted to this with witch hunts and counseling sessions is broadcasting to the world that is not okay to be white.

Or maybe people are just smarter than taking the posters at face value. You didn't answer me before, you honestly don't believe that one should never take into context the source and agenda of a slogan before adopting it? Couldn't it be that people, most people, understand that "okay being white" is a triviality, and therefore look beyond the mere words and into the context of the slogan, and are horrified that people promoting white nationalist 4chan projects are active on their campus.

If you saw a campaign that said something like "Air is good." Would you go "oh neat. What a great campaign. Let's promote this!" Or would you instinctively be like, well gee, everyone knows air is good, who is behind this, what are they promoting, what is their agenda, who on campus is carrying this out?

If you discovered that Evil Corp. posted the ad campaign to promote Clintonian cap and trade because they would benefit financially from subsidies, you wouldn't go "guys this is hysterical overreaction and witch hunts! They just want us to know that air is good!" I doubt it. You'd be singing from the rooftops that people participating in the ad campaign are serving the Evil Corp agenda. Your response would probably not be "oh neat. Yep that's true. Air is good." It would be something like "Yes, air is good, but cap and trade schemes are bad."

But your response here is not "yes it's obviously okay to be white, but it's not okay to be white and racist." These 4chan people are not opposing cultural Marxism out of principle. They literally want to deport and/or kill all non whites. They want socialism for white people only. They created the campaign and you haven't said a word about them.

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13 minutes ago, 2046 said:

Or maybe people are just smarter than taking the posters at face value.

People who require counseling over a poster are "smart?"

13 minutes ago, 2046 said:

you honestly don't believe that one should never take into context the source and agenda of a slogan before adopting it?

Maybe not never, but in this case, no. I'll say whatever damn thing I want, including "it's okay to be white." I will also judge what I will say and what I won't say based on many factors, including who else is saying it.

In this case, a large, large, large number of non-racists are saying "it's okay to be white," including the Donald Trump subreddit, r/The_Donald. The meme has developed a life of its own apart from whoever started it.

13 minutes ago, 2046 said:

You'd be singing from the rooftops that people participating in the ad campaign are serving the Evil Corp agenda.

"The soul exists." That is something that Objectivism believes... man is a being of self-made soul.

Is it not okay to say "the soul exists" just because Christians also believe that, too, and use it to try to scare peopple into joining their religion?

13 minutes ago, 2046 said:

But your response here is not "yes it's obviously okay to be white, but it's not okay to be white and racist."

That is his response, and my response, and you're reading right past it because you want to for some reason. How many times do we have to say that we're not racist and racism isn't cool before you get it?

And before you bring up my point about IQ and race again, I'd kindly ask for even a single number which refutes what I've said. Some alternative data, maybe. Rather than labels like "pseudoscientific" which adds nothing to the discussion because you've failed to refute it. I can scream "anti-vaxxers are pseudoscientific" all day long if I'm debating with one, but that won't change his mind... maybe a figure on people who are vaccinated and don't contract deadly diseases might.

Edited by CartsBeforeHorses

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22 minutes ago, Craig24 said:

"It's ok to be white" does not mean "the white race is the finest race".  What this White Supremacist Church believes isn't my problem and it isn't yours either.  Like I said, if you encounter a group of neo nazis, tell them where they can go.  Use concepts honestly.  You know what the word "selfish" actually means.  Do you dispense with the term "selfish" because the broader culture takes it to be synonymous with evil?    

Rand wanted to dispense with certain terms that were packaged deals, like "extremism" and keep certain other ones, like "selfish." The question is whether you should join in a protest campaign created by white nationalists, not whether the slogan may contain a proposition which is true. The proper individualist response should cut through both packaged deals of affirming and denying the proposition.

"It's not okay to be white and racist and we see your through sloganeering as packaging opposition to anti-white bias with support for white nationalism."

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