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dadmonson

Are Pick Up Artists Legitimate Artists?

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My understanding is that art is suppose to move you emotionally... I don't get "moved", inspired, or excited by watching even the greatest pua's pick up women lol.  If pick up is not an art then why do they call themselves artists?

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13 minutes ago, softwareNerd said:

The word "art" is used in different senses. For me, the top Google prompts, for instance...  "the art of...war", "the art of...shaving", "the art of manliness", "the art of the deal"

I guess the term "art" is used to make pickup and everything else you mentioned seem "sophisticated"?  By the way, here is the definition of art, according to google and not Ayn Rand:

"the expression or application of human creative skill and imagination, typically in a visual form such as painting or sculpture, producing works to be appreciated primarily for their beauty or emotional power."

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Merriam Webster

1. skill acquired by experience, study, or observation the art of making friends
2. a branch of learning: (1) : one of the humanities (2) arts plural : liberal arts
3. an occupation requiring knowledge or skill the art of organ building
4. the conscious use of skill and creative imagination especially in the production of aesthetic objects the art of painting landscapes; also work so produced
5. (archaic) a skillful plan
6. decorative or illustrative elements in printed matter

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I guess the term "art" is used to make pickup and everything else you mentioned seem "sophisticated"? 

As natural languages evolve, words often end up referring to different concepts in different contexts. Take the word "man", for instance: it can be used to mean humans the species, a single human, or it can be used to mean a biological male. There's no reason to get hung up on it, you can get the meaning from context, and accept that no, someone using man in one sense is not trying to refer to the word's other meanings (unless you're a feminist, then apparently you lose that ability).

Same here: artist is used to mean a master of a craft (an artisan). It simply denotes excellence in a field or activity, and has nothing to do with the modern definition of art in the context of Aesthetics. This (excellence at a craft) is actually the original meaning of the word, it only started being used to refer to the profession of someone who creates 'art for the sake of art' after the Renaissance.

Edited by Nicky

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Curious now,  as I don't have a firm grasp on the O'ist view of art.  Is there a way for a pick up artist's approach to become a "work of art" in the O'ist's sense? I guess it could be similar to a performance art or no?  

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1 hour ago, dadmonson said:

 Is there a way for a pick up artist's approach to become a "work of art" in the O'ist's sense?

No. Ayn Rand agreed with what most of the world has believed since the Renaissance: art is something you do for its own sake, not for a utilitarian purpose.

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13 hours ago, dadmonson said:

My understanding is that art is suppose to move you emotionally... I don't get "moved", inspired, or excited by watching even the greatest pua's pick up women lol.  If pick up is not an art then why do they call themselves artists?

I guess some pua's can move women emotionally.  Not sure if I would trust a pua if I was a woman.  Some of the advice on how to become attractive is ok but most of the "art" is manipulative and deceptive.   

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15 minutes ago, Craig24 said:

Not sure if I would trust a pua if I was a woman.  Some of the advice on how to become attractive is ok but most of the "art" is manipulative and deceptive.   

I know right?  If you see a woman you find interesting, just walk straight up to her and tell her so! I guess there is a way of doing this that will maximize your chances with the woman but you can't be compatible with everybody so it is up to her to see if she is interested in you.

Edited by dadmonson

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On 5/8/2018 at 2:18 PM, Craig24 said:

I guess some pua's can move women emotionally.  Not sure if I would trust a pua if I was a woman.  Some of the advice on how to become attractive is ok but most of the "art" is manipulative and deceptive.    

I've actually became curious about PUAs, after a few threads on this board. So I read up on both sides (PUAs, and people critical of them). Here's what I came away with: PUAs do two things:

1. set out to mask certain character flaws (especially low confidence, and an overwhelming need for validation from others) through scripted, usually overly aggressive behavior.

2. do it over and over again, to hundreds or thousands of women.

That's all it is. There's nothing else to it.

And I think point no. 2 is actually a good idea: fixing flaws is done through practice. So that part of the PUA movement is decent advice...it's just that you should do it while being aware of what's going on. You're not using some magic method to sweep supermodels off their feet, you're playing the odds.

Anybody who plays the odds for long enough will eventually find a winning ticket. The catch is to be honest with both yourself and everybody else: that's how character flaws are found out, and fixed. Through honesty, not through some script meant to hide who you are.

But even the mindless PUA repetition can fix one flaw: the fear of rejection. If you go over the same routines hundreds of times, you stop being afraid of a negative outcome. That fear is a character flaw (an important one, because it's the one people pick up on right away). So if it's not there, some women will find the absence of fear attractive enough that they'll look past the hokey pickup lines and the obvious dishonesty, and sleep with a "PUA" a couple of times...until the whole thing comes to a head, as the guy's deeper character flaws are revealed.

But, again: the "art" itself is pointless nonsense. It works because of the repetition, and DESPITE the stupid pseudo-science about female psychology. Just replace the PUA nonsense with honesty, and apply repetition. You'll not just get laid more easily, but you'll develop meaningful relationships.

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