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How do I cope with a negative social environment?

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I recently got stationed on Tyndall AFB in Panama City, FL. The only people I have contact with are my coworkers and their only interests seem to be getting drunk and going to clubs and bars. It doesn't really help that Panama City doesn't really have much culture. Of course, I'm originally from a town that doesn't really cater to anything but hunting, drugs, and drinking. Living there wasn't as bad though, because I had a small group of people who I shared ideas with. Here, I'm surrounded by people that seem to have little or no interest in any intellectual pursuits. Everything is sports, sex or drinking. I'm having trouble getting comfortable here, mainly because the only people I really am able to have any reasonably intelligent conversations with live states away. If any one has any advice on dealing with living in not only a non-Objectivist environment, but a fairly intellectually devoid evironment, I would greatly appreciate it.

I hope this is the appropiate place for this topic. If it isn't, please excuse the mistake.

Lance J Abbe

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How long are you going to be there?

Since you seem to have access to a computer, you can also obviously share your ideas here and in the Live Chat. If the people who live states away have Internet access, you can also talk to them using voice-over-IP.

The beautiful thing about our modern technology is that any isolated corner of the globe is no longer isolated. You have many, many different means of communicating meaningfully with your peers, no matter how far away they are.

If your time on the computer is limited and your isolation is for a limited time, it could be an opportunity to do some serious reading. You could also pursue a hobby such as drawing or composing music. I have so many things I wish to do and so little time to do them; if it were me who were thus isolated, I can't imagine running out of ways to keep myself occupied and productive.

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I will be stationed here for at least a year and a half longer.

I do pursue my interests still. I play guitar, draw, and read constantly. Whats bothering me is being isolated from social interaction with people that share the same values. I have met some good people down here. I do things on weekends with them, but I always miss having people that I can just sit and talk with. I work at night, so I can't even talk to my friends because my schedule is so different than theirs.

I was half hoping that some one on the forum would be from this area and could suggest places that I could go to interact with some like minded people. That and I'm trying to become more active on the forum so I can at least have some interaction, how ever distant, with people who think the way that I do.

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Well if that's all you need, jump in the Live Chat whenever you're on your computer and leave that window on the side while you post and whatnot in another window. I'll be happy to chat with you as I'm sure others in there will, but there isn't someone always chatting 24/7. I check periodically and if there's someone new I'll strike up a conversation. It's the next best thing to sitting at a table with a bunch of Objectivists. ;)

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Here, I'm surrounded by people that seem to have little or no interest in any intellectual pursuits. Everything is sports, sex or drinking.

I've found that in any group of guys there's usually one or two who are willing to engage in more intellectual conversations. You just need to keep bringing up something intellectual in order to draw them out. Start small, like with an analysis of a movie you just saw. See who shows a willingness to think.

Does your base have a common place where people watch the news or read the papers? Maybe you could strike up a conversation with someone who is interested in current events. Give your opinion on these events.

Another tactic I've used is to chat with the ladies, instead of the men. I don't know if there are women on or near your base, but you might try striking up conversations with more members of the opposite sex. I know it usually gets my blood pumping and I have a great time--especially if they are nice to look at. And who knows, maybe you'll find a woman who isn't all about sports, sex, and drinking.

The key is not to give up on the people around you. Yeah, they talk about sports and sex and drink a lot. But that doesn't mean they don't have functioning brains that you can stimulate. You just need to find one or two people who have some common interests with yourself. Keep trying. Talk to different people. Be pleasant.

That's my advice.

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  • 7 months later...

I've noticed in a few of the forums, some of you made statements to the effect that it is unnatural to desire to have almost no contact with other people. I disagree. I think it is perfectly acceptable to want to have as little contact as possible with most people. I find most people to be unintelligent, crude, and utterly depressing.

Ironically, although I do try to be nice, I am found utterly offensive. I've been called overly aggressive, insensitive, and unsympathetic. Some of my former best friends have called me a "bitch" (pardon my language) because of my attitude and beliefs. I work hard. I'm a talented artist. I have opinions and am assertive. Guys overlook me constantly for the more meek girls. Girls that are fragile, with wishy-washy opinions who are "pacifist" by nature. "Nice" girls. And, often enough

As to why I don't like people, just look at what most people do with their time. The next time you go to the grocery store, look at the magazines avaliable. If it's not about so-and-so's baby/disease/charity it's about what color panties really turn guys on. It's ridiculous. Completely, utterly, and inexcusably ridiculous.

People damn corporations, then go and buy their groceries at Wal-Mart, and work at McDonald's. Do they even see the irony?

I'm in college. Hardly anyone seems to know what they're doing there. They have no plans, no ambitions beyond going to get wasted every Wednesday. Yet our state taxes pay most of them to stay there.

I live in Louisiana. What is our goverment doing with all of our tax money? Buying homes for people who lived in New Orleans. Newsflash. It was ALWAYS below sea level. That wasn't a recent development. Neither were flood insurance companies. So why do I, a college student who works part time to pay for an apartment, have to pay for them, when it was their responsibility?

If I said that in a grocery store, I'd be kicked out, stared at, and frowned upon.

I know I am ranting, and that it's barely on-topic at that. My question is, how can you stand this, any of this? How can you watch all these things happen without wanting to scream?

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Why Wednesday?

I don't know if it's a coincidence, but in my college there used to be hardly any classes on Wednesday. I guess it's the 'divide (the week) and conquer approach'.

I've noticed in a few of the forums, some of you made statements to the effect that it is unnatural to desire to have almost no contact with other people. I disagree. I think it is perfectly acceptable to want to have as little contact as possible with most people. I find most people to be unintelligent, crude, and utterly depressing.

I'm hardly a social person myself, but I'm pretty sure I've read about a study indicating that we (our brains) are hardwired for social contact. I don't remember the details, but the researcher pointed out that social rejection would lead to the release of the same chemicals as the ones during physical pain.

I do believe we are social creatures by default, and it is unnatural to avoid that contact (me belonging to that group). The fact that society as a whole has it's own set of problems is hardly an issue there - it's usually our own psychological makeup that's at fault.

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My question is, how can you stand this, any of this? How can you watch all these things happen without wanting to scream?

Why do you let it bother you?

If people want to destroy their own lives, it is their choice. If you want to let that get to you, then it's your choice. I'd recommend against it. Aside from taxes and other similar restrictions, they can't affect you in any real way, unless you let them.

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My question is, how can you stand this, any of this? How can you watch all these things happen without wanting to scream?

Ignore it. Now, to be clear, I don't mean ignore it as in pretend it doesn't exist. Don't deny reality. I mean ignore it as in evaluate it and determine whether it is something that furthers your values, and if it doesn't, spend no more of your time on it. Does the fact that my next neighbor gets loaded out of his mind every night (he doesn't really, it's just a hypo) affect what I want to do with my life? Does it stop me from identifying what I am? From determining what I want to do with my life, and what the proper means are for achieving that? Of course not.

Ravane, I thank you for your question, because this was something I struggled with until very recently. I have almost now completely rid myself of this emotion. And I did it by reminding myself, every time I felt the way you did, that such stuff does not matter. I have only so much time. I will no longer spend it becoming upset on account of idiots. I have decided that spending time on other things is much more important than that.

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But you see, what bothers me is the "taxes and other similar restrictions".

Aside from promoting a philosophy such as Objectivism, there is not much you can do, unless you want to go live alone in the forest or deserted island or something.

I've been second choice to incompetents time and time again, and probably will be in the forseeable future.

Could you elaborate? If you mean people can't see the good in you, then it's their loss, not yours, since you would not get much out of working with them anyways.

Edited by xavier
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Groovenstien, thank you for that. It's just that sometimes it gets personal, and THAT is when it really brings me down. I hate it when I am overlooked or shunned for no fault of my own. I'd rather things be my fault than be someone else's irrationality; if it's my problem I can fix it.

Xavier- I guess what you've said. I've come to the conclusion the fault is thiers, but it still stings.

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Do you see any difference between "almost no contact with other people" and "little contact as possible with most people"?

In my opinion, the former is indicative of a hermit-like existence, whereas the latter suggests some specific reasoning for avoiding particular people, even if those particular people represent the majority.

For me, I don't concern myself much with the irrationality of others (well, okay other than dealing with it all the time on the job :) ), and even then I look at their irrationality in a matter of degrees. There are too many goods and services for which I like to trade for me to alienate myself from everyone just because they tend to be self-destructive. I don't care what they read, what TV shows they like, what charities they support, etc. I care about my needs and desires and that's a far more important expenditure of my time. Despite whatever most folks personal habits and beliefs are, a good many of them have jobs that contribute to something that I need. And even then, there are usually enough choices that I can minimize supporting or dealing with people whose ideas and/or behavior I dislike.

Aside from all that, even though you may have to deal with rocks all the time, it makes that gem you find all the more valuable. There are some decent folks out there, and secluding oneself from society makes meeting them all the more difficult.

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Howdy Ravane,

Rand said, “My philosophy, in essence, is the concept of man as an heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason his only absolute.”

In my life I have found it is better to be like a duck, and to let the bullsh*t of the world just roll off my back.

If as you allude in your earlier comments that you have plans, and goal, (unlike the folks around you), focus on them. Your own happiness should be your highest purpose, and to hell with everyone else. I understand however the desire to be a social animal, at least from an intellectual standpoint. I myself am a proverbial lone wolf, and no I don’t rate “Catcher in the Rye” as my favorite novel actually I have never read it, but being a lone wolf can be lonely.

As for your disdain for your fellow inhabitants of the globe, I understand that as well. So many people are wrapped up in the consumerist/infotainment maelstrom that surrounds us on a daily basis that it sickens me.

So what if some people think you are a bitch? Most of the people I work with think I am a cruel heartless asshole, but I still get along with them to get the job done, and I am counted as an extremely valuable employee.

One thing I have noticed in my life is that if one continues to espouse rational, logical views, many people may think poorly of you, but are those the sorts of unreasoning, irrational people you want to associate with in the first place? Furthermore in the long run, by expressing your views in a rational way will attract those like yourself who are searching for reason and truth, in this unreasoning lie filled world.

As a non-Objectivist friend of mine once said, “If you like me it is not my fault.” Despite his Agnostic/Conservative views I have seen the wisdom of his statement.

On the “taxes and other similar restrictions” issue, we live in a world run by irrational collectivists. I have chosen to follow the Galt model. I say this in fear of bringing the Speicher’s ire but, I have gone on strike. I try to operate below the revenuer’s radar, paying as little in taxes as I can get away with, I will not waste my votes on Republichristians, or Dipshitocrats, and my one legitimate source of income is one in which the incompetence of my fellows is not rewarded.

Rob

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I understand however the desire to be a social animal, at least from an intellectual standpoint.

One thing about being a social animal is that it takes effort. You have to spend time and energy looking for people who share your interests, your values, etc. But just because it's hard doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I have very few deep relationships and very many acquaintances. The few deep relationships are extremely rewarding. The acquaintances are rewarding too, even if only that I know I'll have someone to chat baseball with over a cigarette in between classes on a long day.

That's something to consider, too. Just because someone doesn't share all your values doesn't mean they can't be of any value to you. I disagree about most philosophy with two members of my band, but I very much respect their musical talents and get tremendous value from playing music with them.

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Ravane-

First of all, nice meeting you. It's nice to meet people of a (some what) similar age who are interested in Objectivism.

Continuing on, I have fell into your state of mind a couple times, but I was able to overcome it. Here's how: John Galt says in Atlas Shrugged that evil is metaphysically impotent. It simply doesn't matter. They can't stop you. Why? Because they (the parasites) need us (the producers). I've found once you establish that for yourself, and show the people around you the truth of that statement, then you will be free.

So, if you live your life the way Dagny Taggart would, enjoying people for the values they give you and ignoring the people who are of less value to you than is your time, you will be have fun.

It also seems that you have a rather malevolent view of people, which is sometimes true for me too. But I try to remember this from Atlas Shrugged: when Fransico goes to college Dagny asks "Have you made any friends?" To which he replies "Two." This has always lifted my spirits. There are rational people out there. They aren't all Objectivists (well the most rational are), but they are worth your time.

And as to whether or not you producing would help the parasites continue to exist without contribution, yes it will, to some degree or another. But if you establish with the people around you that they don't have a right to one minute of your life (from Howard Roark in TF), you will help break that cycle. You have to proform an analysis much like the one Dagny Taggart had to do: is it worth giving up what I love to do? I don't believe the world has reached a state bad enough for me to do that. Do you?

Zak

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My question is, how can you stand this, any of this? How can you watch all these things happen without wanting to scream?

What do you think of Dominique in The Fountainhead -- both her initial nature and the nature of the insight she gains by the end of the story?

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But are we compromising when we just stand back and watch things happen?

Don't sanction your enemies. You can work with irrational people without supporting their irrationality.

For example, your co-worker is religious, and you think that is evil. If value of religion ever comes up in an open forum, don't give implicit assent by silence: politely mention that it is possible to have virtues without religion. If they are interested, explain, if not, that single comment is enough.

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Ravane, I think there is a lot of stuff mixed up in your initial post. Here are my two cents about it:

About living a life all by yourself and having little contact with other people:

There are basically two approaches to this:

(1) Having, basically, given up on people and shying away from any social life.

(2) Really having better things to do.

Your approach seems to be number 2. But there is something of number 1 in it. Something like "Why do I live on the planet of the apes?". It is something I felt myself for a long long time. There was a time when I got sick (really physically sick) when I went to the mall to buy stuff because I had to look at all the people and thought about how meaningless they spend their lives.

My solution to this was a simple thought: Why care?

Let them be stupid. Their stupidity should not reign my mind. If I get all mad and upset about this, then this is something I do. I give their stupid behavior more relevance than it deserves. After having that thought initially, I was immediately cured. They may be irrational. But my anger at them is, too. So I gave it up and minded my own business.

You said that the one thing that makes you angry is taxation. Well, that's something you can't change that easily and you have every right to be angry here. But unless you take action to change this, all your anger will be in vain. You spend your time being angry, even, rightfully, about something you don't change. I'd say that you waste your emotions there. I understand your anger, but I want you to understand that unless you put it to use, either to motivate you to fight against this or to channel this into your work, then you ruin your emotional life without results.

Now the question is: Do you hand over the world to evil by using this almost stoicistic approach?

Well, you always have the opportunity to use your lifetime to fight this stupidity by finding a way to reach people. But this, too, won't work by being angry and shouting at people who just don't understand or simply don't even want to understand. This will even work against your intentions. And the question is also whether saving the world from stupidity is your job. And why? I have found my peace in this issue by minding my own business and politely but clearly tearing down every stupid argument I hear (with the intent of teaching).

For all the rest, I have no time.

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I've noticed in a few of the forums, some of you made statements to the effect that it is unnatural to desire to have almost no contact with other people. I disagree....

How can you watch all these things happen without wanting to scream?

Just imagine you fell into a gulch where reason was glorified, and man exalted. Imagine in this place people traded with each other, value for value and there was no force. Would you still wish to be alone or would you relish contact with such people?

I used to be the same way, I hated people. But that was before, when I thought that good men did not exist in the world. Then I found out I was wrong. There's a line from Ayn Rand's play 'Ideal' where the actress says that there's only so long a per son can call out into the darkness without hearing any response. I'm paraphrasing but that was the gist. Social contact with people who share your values may not be necessary for life, but it is necessary to live a life worth living. Maybe I'm just ranting now.

Edited by Michero
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Is the fact that people like you and I who are capable of accomplishing things supporting the existence of those who won't by default?

Only if you do not act, and by not acting you are betraying your values. Don't get suckered by the temptation to think "why do anything at all, if others are going to take it away from you?". It's self-defeating, and ultimately your standard of action becomes based on what others' reactions will be, not your own rational this-needs-to-be-done attitude. You won't achieve anything, so you'll have no values to defend, and your motivations will drift into resentment, rather than pride. (You might as well start buying cats ...)

Furthermore, you'd only be supporting the existence of these leeches and thieves by acting on their sanction. Act on the sanction of your own mind, and your confidence will scare them off. You will have to defend your values, but you'll be more acutely aware of your true friends and your enemies.

But defensiveness - a facade of mild paranoid anxiety - will scare off those who would appreciate your ability, recognize your talent, and acknowledge your pride in your achievements. It is with these people that any rational man or woman ideally wants to trade, value for value. That anxiety could betray a weakness that a clever ne'er-do-well could use against you ... it's just the opening one would need to manipulate you.

I'm not saying you ought to be some stoic, unaffected Vulcan. Be like Superman, stand strong and confident, and let slip a wry grin as the bullets bounce off your chest.

Edited by synthlord
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