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Colonialism/imperialism

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10 hours ago, EC said:

I mean what I said was purposely over the top because I don't believe the Spanish were hero's qua hero (as an Objectivist would define it) but on a scale of Nazi-like behavior to genuine heroic behavior, I would lean towards the latter for the Spanish explorers of the time. I mean every nation/civilization of that time was immoral, but some less so than others. If someone put a gun to my head and said choose between living in Renaissance Europe under a despot king/Roman Catholic Church rule or in Mesoamerica under tyranical rulers who could sacrifice me at any moment to their serpent god I'd choose the former. I mean I'd hate both choices, but Europe was far more advanced than Mesoamerica at the time.

"Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed." ~ Declaration of Independence

Your willingness (and others) to choose (and be grateful for) a lesser evil, one you can live with, is likely why the ideal practice of rights remains beyond our ability to experience socially.

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10 hours ago, EC said:

Mesoamerica under tyranical rulers who could sacrifice me at any moment to their serpent god I'd choose the former.

I mean, I would say the Aztecs were irrational about their religion, no doubt, but it wasn't much worse than the Catholic Church. If you're sacrificed, or you're tortured and killed for not repenting, there isn't much difference. Sacrifice was in the name of religion, not a random act. Also, the Inca didn't sacrifice, so it's not simply a characteristic of South and Central American cultures.

Your response isn't an argument though against the idea that colonialism is evil. If you prefer Renaissance Europe, that's fine, just as I would prefer communist Russia over fascist Italy. Keep in mind that fascism and communism are evil for different reasons. Although I would prefer communist Russia, it doesn't mean that I would say communist Russia is more good than bad. 

Part of my position is that colonialism does not improve anything. If there are improvements, it's because of voluntary trade, even if the other people are primitive compared to you. This is why European settlement is not immoral. But the Spanish didn't do that though. If the American Revolution was about Britain that turned colonialist (resource acquisition as the primary political principle)  and tyrannical, then Britain was certainly more immoral than moral. Since Spain did the same thing, except much worse, they were certainly more immoral than moral. If you disagree, then I'd like to hear some explanation of how the American Revolution could have possibly been moral.

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5 hours ago, Doug Morris said:

The concept of "God" pushed by scriptuarians is pretty bizarre too, but you can't tell this by looking at a picture of "God".  You have to think in principles.

I don't disagree. I'm not stating my exact position on history correctly, so will need to think of how to state it, given that I think that several people are objecting. This is fine though given that I've only given "off the top of my mind" answers here while trying to steer clear of long explanations thus far. I need to decide first whether or not I care enough about this topic to explain further first.

Edited by EC

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On 12/25/2018 at 10:36 AM, Doug Morris said:

The concept of "God" pushed by scriptuarians is pretty bizarre too, but you can't tell this by looking at a picture of "God".  You have to think in principles.

I used the word "scriptuarian" according to what a lecture in a history class once said it meant.  I checked on Wikipedia.  According to what I found there, I would have done better to say "Abrahamists".

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