gender equality

[chanticleer]

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I would like to know if there is any objectivist literature on gender equality. I am a Women's studies major and could use a different viewpoint than the hostile anti-male ones I am so often assigned to read!

Also, has Ayn Rand specifically written anything about motherhood? And if so, did she support working women, or did she feel that women should have a more traditional place (i.e. in the home)>

[AshRyan]

I'm curious, have you read Atlas Shrugged yet? That's the only work I can think of in which Rand really touches on all of the topics you mentioned (albeit briefly in the case of some, e.g. motherhood).

But to give you some indication of her answers on those topics, hers is the least anti-man philosophy you're likely to find. In fact, she describes her own view of man as "hero-worship" (this theme runs throughout her fiction.) (That doesn't mean that a woman should worship any man just because he's male--in fact, quite the opposite, since it means she holds him to high standards.) For that reason, she is completely against the modern Feminist movement.

On the other hand, she also holds a positive view of women. She was definitely supportive of working women (the heroine of Atlas Shrugged is a railroad heiress who basically runs the railroad)--she was a woman with a brilliant career herself, both as a novelist and as a philosopher, and was much more successful than her husband. But she did also see motherhood as a legitimate occupation, although she did not choose to have children. She would be completely against the idea that "a woman's place is in the home."

[Capitalism Forever]

gender equality

Men and women have equal rights--there is no doubt about that. Other than that, Objectivism does not mandate any kind of equality between any two people or groups, as it would conflict with the right of every individual to his liberty. For example, employers may pay different wages to different people for doing the same job--their right to liberty means that they can choose the wages they pay based on whatever factors they like.

Rational employers, however, will not see gender as a factor unless it is relevant for the job.

As for choosing a carreer, rational people will prefer jobs that suit their natures well; for example, a very short man should not try to become a basketball player (and complain about "discrimination" when he fails) but rather choose a job where body height is not a factor (or better still, where being short is an advantage). The same is true for gender: there are jobs where masculine traits (physical strength, deeper/louder voice, etc.) are appreciated, and there are ones where feminine characteristics (beauty, kind voice, light body weight, and so on) are more advantageous.

[Old Geezer]

chanticleer,

while recognizing that modern feminism is kind of fragmented and there are many different approaches, here is a thought;

A)Carol Gilligan (the one who responded to Kohlberg's work on the development of morality) critisized his model of development by pointing out that it was "justice based" instead of "relational/caring" (the way she asserted women tend to 'think') Rand's system of morality is oriented towards justice, and in the case of the famous example about the man stealing medicine for his wife, rand would not have accepted it, no matter how much the man loved his wife, he had no "right" to the medicine. As it applies to "gender equality" the importance of justice applies because injustice can not be "allowed" as a means to an end. (one should not acheive gender equality by perpetrating an injustice )

More later

[Carla]

Hi Chanticleer,

While Rand certainly believed in equal rights for men and women (as for all human beings), she didn't specifically write about "gender issues" that much--I think she wasn't as interested in it as she was in other, "bigger" issues. I think she saw it as almost a non-issue, as if this kind of equality should be self-evident. (Please note that the above are just my thoughts, what I've gathered from reading much of her work, and not established fact by any means.) She definitely would not have thought that women should have more "traditional" roles in the home.

That being said, here are a few places where Rand referenced women's roles, etc.:

In "An Answer to Readers (About a Woman President)", originally printed in The Objectivist

she discusses "the essence of femininity," which to her is "hero-worship--the desire to look up to man"; also, "the object of her worship is specifically his masculinity. She also outlines why this "primarily pscychological" issue would mean that a rational women would never wish to be president of the U.S. This essay was reprinted as "About a Woman President" in The Voice of Reason: Essays in Objectivist Thought.

"Playboy's Interview of Ayn Rand" also has some interesting statements about women and careers and stay-at-home moms. She says that staying at home is not a full-time career, except when children are very young, but if a woman does choose it as her career, she must approach it as such by investigating it scientifically. This interview is often passed out as a pamphlet at Objectivist lectures and the like; you can probably request it from ARI. Excerpts are published in the AR Lexicon.

There might be a few more, but as I said before, I'm pretty sure Rand discussed her views fully in (non-fiction) published work (though as AshRyan mentioned below, Atlas Shrugged laid it out pretty well.

In particular, I've often wished that she had discussed her ideas of masculinity and femininity much more fully--the essay I mentioned above has frustrated me many times with its ambiguousness. I also think I mostly disagree with her there (it might be the only topic I could say that about!), but if she had explained it more, I might have found a little more common ground with her thoughts.

[danielshrugged]

Hi Chanticleer,

Just wondering whether you took the name Chanticleer from Chaucer's Nun's Priest's Tale (I would think Chaucer would be an important author for a women's studies major).

I just happen to be working on a major paper which discusses the Nun's Priest's Tale a bit.

[Areactor]

I remember reading an excerpt on how some ultra-left feminist were very offended by Rand's "Comrad Sonya".

That reminds me, I have to finish We the living.