Future Novel: Concepts

[Prometheus98876]

This is in regards to an idea for a future novel that I am currently working on. I thought that this would be the best place for this (however I am new to this site, so correct me if I am mistaken please).

The theme is in essence the importance of philosophy to every human being, and what might happen if one attempts to live without it. '

It is a science fiction work, set 50-100 years in the future, and features alot of technologies that seem fantasic by todays standard, and some that might be relatively fantastic for the time period.

We start off with the brillant young (about 25 years old) Robotic Scientist, Lycynda Amross finishing an android. This android has been equipped with her latest invention, which is basically a bio-mechanical brain.

She boots up the robot, and it comes to 'life' and things proceed from here, with it becoming apparent that the robot is mentally very human, with rational faculties and all that. It is not equipped with the electronics that ensure its survivual, ie like man can only survive using its mind. The robot demonstrates what philosophies are needed for what i consider to be the ideal man (im sure most of you would agree with my conception).

Eventually a rival of her builds a similar robot, but one without the philosophical abilities or free will of the other robot. Essentially it is a slave to the will of its creators, acting only on their instruction. Hence it is a slave to its creators acting only on their 'divine will' (so in a sense the novel might also compare rationalism and religion).

That is a very basic outline of what I have planned so far...please do tell me what you think and whether you have any problems/questions...

[softwareNerd]

I find the concept fascinating. The trick would be: how to make it an interesting novel rather than a philosophical treatise based on a hypothetical example. Doing so, in a first novel would be ambitious.

[Prometheus98876]

Yes, you are right. I would have to careful to make it interesting. However, I do have various rough ideas on how to ensure it is still interesting. That is one of the advantages to using the science fiction medium, I can include some interesting events using some interesting technology to help spice those events up.

And although it is to be my first novel, I am far from a novice at writing, I have been working on my skills as a writer for 12 years so far, throughout various drafts that lead ultimately to this. Having said that, this is far more ambitous than the majority of those ideas.

Of course, I find the section on Literature in the Romantic Manisfeto to be of some help, affirming theories of my own and helping me with a few points I had not considered in quite the way Ayn Rand presents it.

I will have to prove myself when this is done. Which I hope to be about the time I graudate, or very long after, so we are looking at about three or four years more.

Thanks for the comments.

Edited July 20, 2005 by Prometheus98876

[softwareNerd]

I suppose that the way to dramatize the difference would be to have the two robots in some type of conflict or race: fighting for opposite sides, or trying to be the first to acheive some extremely important task.

(I realize you may not want to divulge too much; that's perfectly fine.)

[Prometheus98876]

I suppose that the way to dramatize the difference would be to have the two robots in some type of conflict or race: fighting for opposite sides, or trying to be the first to acheive some extremely important task.

(I realize you may not want to divulge too much; that's perfectly fine.)

Yes, I am working on such ideas. For instance, one idea involves the fact that the general public has demanded a practical series of demonstrations of the abilities of both robots, and their usefullness to society. It shouldnt be too hard to see how this allows some serious conflicts, and perhaps some rather interesting ones.

Yes, of course, I do not wish to say too much, for A)risk of revealing too much of what might be in the final product and ...well you know.

[Prometheus98876]

Anyone whom wants to read a small sample of this novel can if they wish send me a private message and I will send them most of the current version of Chapter One and a more detailed overview of the novel.

[BurgessLau]

The theme is in essence the importance of philosophy to every human being, and what might happen if one attempts to live without it. [...]

Hence it is a slave to its creators acting only on their 'divine will' (so in a sense the novel might also compare rationalism and religion).

The basic situation you describe has a lot of potential for an intriguing story that would appeal to an audience far beyond the standard science-fiction readers.

I am confused on several points. First, what is the theme concept, if there is a single one, and then how would you expand that concept into a theme statement? You seem to be indicating two themes above. Both are very broad, thus requiring a huge novel to provide all the concretes that would justify the abstraction (the theme) the reader will draw from the concretes.

Second, I do not understand what the central conflict is, and therefore what the plot-theme will be. Can you briefly state those?

You have already indicated that the two main characters will be the two inventors, each with a different design approach. Also, I suppose, the two robots are characters, of a sort. So, the character part of the story is clear.

By the way, you didn't mention Ayn Rand's lectures on The Art of Fiction Writing as a resource. It is now available, I understand, in an edited, printed form. Have you studied it? In our local Objectivist network, a fiction writer and I (a nonfiction writer) both found The Art of Nonfiction to be very useful, when studied very slowly and carefully. In ANF, Ayn Rand frequently mentions examples of her work procedures in fiction writing as well as nonfiction writing.

Lastly, you said that the novel might "compare rationalism and religion." Since rationalism is a corrupt form of reason, and religion is a corrupt form of philosophy -- why would you want to compare them? Or are you using "rationalism" as a synonym for "reason"? If so, you should be aware that in Objectivism "rationalism" has a particular pejorative meaning. See "Rationalism vs. Empiricism" in The Ayn Rand Lexicon for a brief description of the two false alternatives to objectivity.

Edited September 30, 2005 by BurgessLau

[hunterrose]

I find the concept fascinating. The trick would be: how to make it an interesting novel rather than a philosophical treatise based on a hypothetical example...

Yeah, that was my initial thought. How many pages are you aiming for?

I'm working on some novel ideas myself, so best of luck

[Prometheus98876]

Well, it will be a large novel indeed, about 800 odd pages or so. The main theme is the importance of philosophy, but the subjects of art and rights are extensively covered as well. I guess you would say the centrel theme is the importance of philsophy, all the 'subthems' rely on this.

The centrel conflict is between those whom value philosophy and rationality (the robot and its creeator), and those whom do not value philosophy and rationality (the archrival of the creator, his robot creation and the majority of soceity). The exact nature of this conflict is not totally clear to be as of yet.

as for the art of fiction, I intend to purchase a copy of that, after skimming through it I am convinced that I could learn alot from it

I would want to "compare' (maybe contrast is a better way of putting it?) in order to make it more clear the nature of both and the key differences. Though delibretly doing so might be a bit pointless, so it would be more true to say that novel does that on the way to something else.

[Felix]

Great idea for a novel. I'm interested. (You already have a buyer )

Something I would like to read would be what's going on inside the robot's minds (since they are built to have minds).

[Prometheus98876]

Great idea for a novel. I'm interested. (You already have a buyer )

Something I would like to read would be what's going on inside the robot's minds (since they are built to have minds).

Oh dont worry, I will be delving abit into what each of the robots is thinking... I think it would be silly not to!

[DragonMaci]

I find the concept fascinating. The trick would be: how to make it an interesting novel rather than a philosophical treatise based on a hypothetical example. Doing so, in a first novel would be ambitious.

Ambitious yes, but not undoable. I have heard his ideas first hand and I think they are quite good, quite workable and very accurate.

Terry Goodkind done it by starting off with Wizards First Rule.

Also I am trying a philosophical fantasy novel as my first novel.

Edited October 3, 2005 by DragonMaci

[Prometheus98876]

Ambitious yes, but not undoable. I have heard his ideas first hand and I think they are quite good, quite workable and very accurate.

Terry Goodkind done it by starting off with Wizards First Rule.

Also I am trying a philosophical fantasy novel as my first novel.

Thanks for the support Kane, but Im sure my work can speak for itself.

Is is just me or do at least a quarter of the people here intend to release novels or short stories one day? Perhaps sadly, i would say that in most cases this will never happen. But if anyone does want someone to read their drafts, I would be happy to do so, and to make constructive criticism and I might even give you some justified praise. I am sure DragonMaci would also love to read any of your work.

Hey look Kane, the quote-engine spat this quote out this morning:

"It does not do you good to leave a dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him."--J.R.R. Tolkien.

As the name DragonMaci implies, he loves dragons. And by the way, Maci is a concept from some of his earlier fantasy novel ideas, ask him about it if you wish, he could it far better than I could.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Prometheus98876

[hunterrose]

Is is just me or do at least a quarter of the people here intend to release novels or short stories one day? Perhaps sadly, i would say that in most cases this will never happen.

Meh, the odds haven't daunted you; why should we be If I write a masterpiece, they will come

I have two concepts that I am working on, just to throw my horseshoes in.

One is a bit of fanfiction - a Dune novel.

The other is about a group of people who, in a corrupt society, protect themselves through duplicitous means. Yada yada yada, it comes to the point that the group has to decide if it is better to dupe the corrupt, or fight for long-term change.

I'm working to have a rough draft of the two, around 300 pages a piece, by the end of '06.

[Prometheus98876]

Meh, the odds haven't daunted you; why should we be If I write a masterpiece, they will come

I have two concepts that I am working on, just to throw my horseshoes in.

One is a bit of fanfiction - a Dune novel.

The other is about a group of people who, in a corrupt society, protect themselves through duplicitous means. Yada yada yada, it comes to the point that the group has to decide if it is better to dupe the corrupt, or fight for long-term change.

I'm working to have a rough draft of the two, around 300 pages a piece, by the end of '06.

Yes, well Im just saying that half the world seems to want to write a novel, but most of them do not. Of course, alot of the time this is because they just do not have the ability (but perhaps the potential).

Well, I would love to read a draft of the latter idea, Im not that interested in Dune fanfiction though.

Hopefully I will have about 1000 or so pages of Prometheus Scorned done by the end of 06, I am aiming for about 250 (early draft) by the end of the year...I better get cracking over Summer School (I only have one paper at the moment, I MIGHT bump it up to two or three).

[Michero]

Meh, the odds haven't daunted you; why should we be If I write a masterpiece, they will come

I have two concepts that I am working on, just to throw my horseshoes in.

One is a bit of fanfiction - a Dune novel.

The other is about a group of people who, in a corrupt society, protect themselves through duplicitous means. Yada yada yada, it comes to the point that the group has to decide if it is better to dupe the corrupt, or fight for long-term change.

I'm working to have a rough draft of the two, around 300 pages a piece, by the end of '06.

That reminds me of a short story I just started working on. A pretty complex plot so far about a married couple of spies (this started out as an exercise on a clicheed plot, which I was trying to see if I could make more interesting, which I believe I've done) well in short the government shifts and become corrupt and many spies leave the service (the main characters husband included). The main female believes she can make up for all the injustices if she can become the head of the agency. Her husband returns after disappearing for many years (remarried to a foreign diplomate) and accused of being a traitor. She has to stop the man she loves (condemning him to life in prison or possible death) from committing a crime which could criple the country's economy, or she could choose to help him and loose everything she's been working for. Of course he ultimate deciding factor in all this is which is the just option. Her husband of course will make the decision clearer for her in the end.

I'm also thinking about adding another man into the mix, someone who like the main female desires justice, but like her is confused on exactly the best way to apply justice.

This is a very sparse version of the plot, with sub-plots and a few characters ommitted (the theme is the importance of applying justice consistently in all facets of life)

Is that anything new or something any of you would be interested in reading (bear in mind that your answer will have no bearing on whether or not I write it)? Personally I just really wanted to write it because, well hell I love a good spy story and I'm really excited to write about the husband character.

PS: what happened to spell check? I'm paranoid now thta im macking all thees spelling errors. (jk )

Edited October 5, 2005 by Michero

[hunterrose]

That reminds me of a short story I just started working on...

Is that anything new or something any of you would be interested in reading (bear in mind that your answer will have no bearing on whether or not I write it)?

Our ideas sound similar; fortunately our end results will likely be quite different

It sounds good to me. How far along on your plot are you? I've gotten a strong idea of my main character and their relations to each other, but I haven't really filled in enough of the blanks in my plot.

Reading about other people working toward their literary creations is inspiring me to focus and get mine done

I wondered about spell check myself!

[Prometheus98876]

Hmm...it sounds like an interesting idea. I would like to read what you have in order to be able to form a more educated opinion.

The theme seems good, I am not sure about whetehr you need the other character you mentioned though. I will reserve my judgement on that until I get to read it.

As for spell-check...I think I left it in my pants pocket when i done the washing lassti neigbnt.

[DragonMaci]

As the name DragonMaci implies, he loves dragons. And by the way, Maci is a concept from some of his earlier fantasy novel ideas, ask him about it if you wish, he could it far better than I could.

Actually I am still using Maci in the current incarnation of my novels not just the earlier ones.

[Prometheus98876]

Actually I am still using Maci in the current incarnation of my novels not just the earlier ones.

Oh, I was a little unsure so I did not want to risk misrepresenting you. Dont forgot to tell us all about Maci at some stage, Im sure someone would like to know and I dont mind hearing it again, or is it reading it again?

[erik]

I've been working on a bit of Sci-Fi myself for a few years now. My main problem is time. I have a 15 month old and work full time. So basically I work until I sleep which is not much. Another problem is my writing skills have really degraded over the years. I need to read some of the above AR books to maybe freshen up. Good luck to the rest of you. I expect a post when these stories are published so we can buy them.

[Prometheus98876]

I've been working on a bit of Sci-Fi myself for a few years now. My main problem is time. I have a 15 month old and work full time. So basically I work until I sleep which is not much. Another problem is my writing skills have really degraded over the years. I need to read some of the above AR books to maybe freshen up. Good luck to the rest of you. I expect a post when these stories are published so we can buy them.

Oh well, I sort of know what you mean. What with university and a few other projects (such as creating a few websites etc), I do not have all that much time available for my working on my novel. Which might explain why I still have not finished a later draft of chapter one of Prometheus Scorned.

Thanks for the good wishes, I hope you are able to find the time to work on your project one of these days.

[DragonMaci]

Oh, I was a little unsure so I did not want to risk misrepresenting you. Dont forgot to tell us all about Maci at some stage, Im sure someone would like to know and I dont mind hearing it again, or is it reading it again?

Okay, I understand. And the maci I use now are a little different than the ones I used to use, so you don't know as much about them anymore. Anyway I will but a post about them in the post about my book. I will do it soonish.

[Prometheus98876]

An interesting question that I face is whether to bother detailing at all, how such an amazingly complicated mind might work technically. At the moment I am leaning towards not doing this. I really see little point in giving much detail, as it does not really contribute to the novel as a whole and I am not sure the explanation would be all the useful or interesting as I would not want to make it very long.

How would one go about that anyway I wonder? I would assume that it would use neural network technology, and perhaps a compact quantum computer of sorts. Could one perhaps build a quantum neural network?

Also, this raises an interesting point, how far in the future would this need to be? Does anyone have any thoughts/theories on this?

[Felix]

An interesting question that I face is whether to bother detailing at all, how such an amazingly complicated mind might work technically. At the moment I am leaning towards not doing this. I really see little point in giving much detail, as it does not really contribute to the novel as a whole and I am not sure the explanation would be all the useful or interesting as I would not want to make it very long.

How would one go about that anyway I wonder? I would assume that it would use neural network technology, and perhaps a compact quantum computer of sorts. Could one perhaps build a quantum neural network?

Also, this raises an interesting point, how far in the future would this need to be? Does anyone have any thoughts/theories on this?

I'm quite into robotics and the best humanoid robot existing today works with neural networks. So, I would recommend you use them in your book, too. I don't know a lot about quantum computers, but they operate on another principle than classical computers which allows them to do computations that are impossible to todays computers. If you can build a quantum computer, you can build a quantum neural network. It would be a next step, the major problem being miniaturisation, but it is nothing but a network of quantum computers. You can also simulate the network on a quantum computer.

I think it may take another 50 years at least to have a quantum computer. But then: nobody can predict the future. This is nothing but an uninformed guess and this will be the best you can get. Nobody can know the future so you have no information to make an informed guess. And what else can you do about the future except guessing?

Now that I think of it: Isn't this what science fiction is about most of the time?