Groovenstein Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 I've never read so much crying in all my life, especially from people who don't know a damn thing about Native people. Ignorant. I see SN already warned you, so I won't. I will add that if your next couple offerings are substantially similar to this one you won't be with us for long. Don't take my lack of formal action, or my silence on the substance of your remarks, as a sanction. Addressing these remarks would be a colossal waste of everyone's time, and our members have the good sense not to do so. However, if you can offer something resembling an intelligible argument, the members and I welcome it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovenstein Posted August 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Addressing these remarks would be a colossal waste of everyone's time, and our members have the good sense not to do so. Members, please do not respond to the insulting remarks I quoted above. We all know how stupid they are, and we don't need to feed any trolls today. If this person is not a troll, but was merely venting frustration, that will be clear soon enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 (edited) ... I'm Irish, I'm coincidentally drinking a beer, now if I only had someone to deck or oppress. Hmm! I suppose "Daring Desis" won't be to convincing, though a desi like me might welcome it! I've always thought that Indian reservations and low-income housing projects were such perfect examples of there are some ways of "helping" people that just aren't helpful. Edited August 19, 2005 by softwareNerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robspe Posted August 19, 2005 Report Share Posted August 19, 2005 Hmm! I suppose "Daring Desis" won't be to convincing, though a desi like me might welcome it! I've always thought that Indian reservations and low-income housing projects were such perfect examples of there are some ways of "helping" people that just aren't helpful. As a resident of Tallahassee, I must say someone needs to stand up for the poor oppressed alligators who are tokenized by the impotence of the Gainesville-based football team, which finds it entirely impossible to ever win a game up here. It's sad, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottkursk Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 Hmm! I suppose "Daring Desis" won't be to convincing, though a desi like me might welcome it! I'm the only one in my office that isn't a Desi, so my nickname after I saw Lagaan became jokinginly Ferengi. I was talking about the whole issue of mascots and bigotry today with the office and mentioned the whole fighting irish thing etc. They said that they'd have to call themselves the Bargain Hunting Desi's with two guys haggling as the school logo. I just had to say ugh and walk away. After all, they said if I could have a drunk leprechaun and be proud why couldn't they have two guys getting the best price for something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottkursk Posted August 20, 2005 Report Share Posted August 20, 2005 As a resident of Tallahassee, I must say someone needs to stand up for the poor oppressed alligators who are tokenized by the impotence of the Gainesville-based football team, which finds it entirely impossible to ever win a game up here. It's sad, really. See my previous quote about my middle name: Albert. Yes, I was named after a green and orange alligator. My dad was a wee bit more than obsessed alum of the real University of Florida. Though to FSU's credit, they are famed for their go-cart track and their time trials. And their football team is really great. All UF has is the nationally ranked law and engineering schools. But then I guess it's a matter of priorities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted August 22, 2005 Report Share Posted August 22, 2005 In our multi-cultural world, it is just so cool to be part aboriginal. The New York Times recently ran an article about a whole lot of white folk who are discovering their native American ancestry. I'm a sceptic; sounds too much like the repressed memory stuff to me. One day we'll all be proud to say: "Ich bein ein Native American!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovenstein Posted September 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 On a related note, it seems these PC folks really try to cover all their bases. A couple years ago some native folks sued to cancel the Washington Redskins trademark. They alleged the mark was in violation of 15 U.S.C. 1052(a), which prohibits federal registration of marks consisting of "immoral" or "scandalous" matter, or "matter which may disparage persons, living or dead, institutions, national symbols, or beliefs, or bring them into contempt or disrepute . . . ." The federal Trial Trademark and Appeal Board deregistered the mark in 1999, but thankfully a federal judge said that was crap (for somewhat technical legal reasons) in Pro-Football, Inc. v. Harjo, et al., 284 F.Supp.2d 96 (D.D.C. 2003). [i haven't read the full opinion. This info is from pp. 523-24 of my casebook Sports and the Law, 3d ed. by Weiler and Roberts. You can access the full opinion at no charge here, thanks to the D.C. District's website.] God I wish these people (by which I mean PC proponents) would just knock it off. Sadly, they won't if they keep getting encouraged by the clowns who take them seriously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterrose Posted September 19, 2005 Report Share Posted September 19, 2005 Exactly. You'd think these people would be proud that the team is basically saying "hey the Seminoles were fierce fighters, so we want to be associated with that." But I don't think they can grasp the compliment. Instead they automatically assume that it's somehow meant as an insult. Well, to add a bit of perspective from the other side, "fighting" isn't necessarily a complement. Someone could mean these to be complimentary, too: Machiavellian Presidents Slaveowning Whites Fighting Nats Dogmatic Objectivists Marching Cherokee That certainly doesn't mean groups these mascots are derived from would or should approve of such "flattery," though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovenstein Posted September 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Why do you think fighting and marching are comparable to dogmatic and slaveowning? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunterrose Posted September 20, 2005 Report Share Posted September 20, 2005 Why do you think fighting and marching are comparable to dogmatic and slaveowning? From a personal perspective and in a general sense, I don't. But personal perspective isn't a strong reason to allow one over the other. I'm sure I can find some group of people that'd prefer dogmatic and slaveowning as mascot adjectives (Bob Jones U? ), and if their personal feelings were the necessary justification, what would be the rationale in opposing the Dogmatic Objectivists of X University? In general, fighting and marching are, at the least, more benign than dogmatic and slaveowning, but there are exceptions. Marching might be VERY justifiably offensive in regards to the Cherokee, as it has connotations of the Trail of Tears. The Fighting Nats is okay... unless Nats refers to Nat Turners, which might take some of the luster off of "Fighting." "Fighting" and "marching" aren't necessarily complimentary. Alternately, a group can find some aspect of "dogmatic" or "slaveowning" that they find "complimentary." It's quite a slippery slope to say that A is wrong in opposing this mascot, but B is right in opposing that mascot. If one is wrong, that at least justifies a person questioning whether another is wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groovenstein Posted October 19, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2005 Now the APA throws its two cents in. Your self-esteem is damaged by a mascot? Then I question whether you even have self-esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skap35 Posted October 22, 2005 Report Share Posted October 22, 2005 Now the APA throws its two cents in. Your self-esteem is damaged by a mascot? Then I question whether you even have self-esteem. I doubt most Indians have their self-esteem damaged from their tribe being honored: There was a big controversy over this issue with a school in my area (Miami University in Ohio). The funny thing about this is a coworker was telling me the other day about an interview he saw with a member of the Miami tribe. The best quote from the guy was "here we go again, the white man telling us what we should be offended by." In the case of the school in my area, the entire school was dedicated to honoring this tribe. They even had special scholarships for members of the tribe, the school itself was named after it, and most of the tribe's members were certainly not offended by it. But outside groups like the APA came in and forced them to change their name to "The Redhawks." The fact is, the majority of this nonsense isn't even started by the people who are "supposed" to be offended by it. It's started by groups like this who have nothing better to do but push their own agenda on various schools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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