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sedriss scott blaine

a new nation underwater

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While thinking about the possibility of a sci-fi/romanticism genre, this popped into my head:

Imagine that the technology existed to have an underwater base. On the ocean's floor a corporation begins mining for a new natural resource they've discovered. This is so successful that the corporation soon becomes a mega-corporation and have the funding to expand their base into a city. All the people who work there and their families are down on the ocean's floor. It's thriving to the point where a political system is established (and you people on the forum know what kind). They decide to have their own nation similar to the Vatican in Italy. But this isn't religious, it's capitalist.

Could they have the legal right to do so? What if the corporation that founded the base became the financial backer/bank of the new nation? If that corporation wanted to defect from the nation it came from and take up legal residence in this New Atlantis, could their origional nation force them to stay? Would war have to be declared? Is every inch of the ocean's floor the legal territory of a land nation?

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Could they have the legal right to do so?

That depends of the laws of the corporation's nation of origin--but they certainly do have the moral right to do so.

Is every inch of the ocean's floor the legal territory of a land nation?

No, it isn't.

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:P:pimp::pimp::pimp::pimp::pimp: ... :yarr:

Haha, I am free of the :nerd: hobgoblins :nerd: of my little mind.

Because pimps aren't :nerd: hobgoblins :nerd: and B) foolish consistencies B) are just not cool.

But seriously admins, this is waaaaay of topic :rolleyes: - oh that's right :lol:

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I have to agree with CF.

Is there a right to secede? - And if so, is it relevant in answering the question? Is it moral for a country to declare war on the former citizens who are taking a territory and seceding?

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Total smilie count in thread thus far: 18 :lol: 19

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In answer to the original question, I don’t think you have to make it nearly that complicated. If you develop previously unclaimed and undeveloped land into a civilization advanced enough to require a government, then you can do so by assembling a constitutional convention of qualified representatives. This is the way it was done for the United States, Texas, and California.

In terms of citizenship, an individual or a company can be established in multiple locations without conflict.

In regard to secession, I think a valid claim to govern a territory requires some sort of presence there. Just as Texans were justified in rebelling from Mexico to establish their own state, so you would be justified in establishing one in any other formerly uninhabited area on (or off) earth.

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What about, say, the Free State Project forcing New Hampshire to secede from the US? Is that moral as an absolute, and is that moral in the context of new territory, and is that moral in the context of oppression / immoral law, and what other contexts can you think of (and, as always, what are the relevant premises in deciding the justness of action in these contexts)?

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The FSF is not seceding from the U.S- the organization is set to dissolve as soon as its goal of moving a certain number of citizens to NH is complete.

In answer to your question, a group of people can only dissolve their ties from an established nation if that nation fails to fill the duties of a proper government – by failing to protect (or respect) individual rights.

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In answer to your question, a group of people can only dissolve their ties from an established nation if that nation fails to fill the duties of a proper government – by failing to protect (or respect) individual rights.

What if a state suddenly felt that the federal income tax was a lack of respect to individual rights. Could that state dissolve its ties? I know that income tax is a disrespect to individual rights and that a state declaring so would be unlikely... Just another hypothetical question.

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Is there a right to secede? ... Is it moral for a country to declare war on the former citizens who are taking a territory and seceding?

To answer this question (and to expand on what David said), it is moral for a group of people to secede from a nation that uses initiatory force against them on the condition that the nation they establish is freer. It is not moral to secede from a freer nation in order to establish a less free one. (This implies the answer to the second question as well.)

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