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Philosophy Classes In College

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I go to a technical school (WPI: Worcester Polytechnic Institute) and very few philosophy courses are offered in. On top of that, the courses offered run something along the lines of "ethics in engineering" by which they mean altruism for the most part. Also the others offered are "Philosophy and relegion" and "environmental philosophy".

So my dilemma is, should i take some of these classes just to check out other philosophies, or would it just be a waste of my time?

thank you

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I go to a technical school (WPI: Worcester Polytechnic Institute) and very few philosophy courses are offered in. On top of that, the courses offered run something along the lines of "ethics in engineering" by which they mean altruism for the most part. Also the others offered are "Philosophy and relegion" and "environmental philosophy".

So my dilemma is, should i take some of these classes just to check out other philosophies, or would it just be a waste of my time?

thank you

Gee, are these real classes? Ethics in engineering sounded promising, but if it's just altruism that won't help much. I have no idea what 'enviromental philosophy' is supposed to be, therefore I can give no advice here. If 'philosophy and religion' has something to offer? Hm. I doubt it. The only stuff worth a read in the rest of philosophy (in my opinion) is Nietzsche and Stirner and maybe Satanism, mostly for the life-affirming vibe. But the rest I learned (and I read a lot ranging from the Bible over Existentialism to Zen-Buddhism) was a waste of time. Except maybe some 'Know your foe'-knowledge, honestly I wouldn't expect too much from these courses. But, of course, in the end you have to make up your own mind.

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So my dilemma is, should i take some of these classes just to check out other philosophies, or would it just be a waste of my time?

I think you need to identify what your goal is. What is your motivation for checking out other philosophies? Do you intend to become a philosopher? Are you merely curious? Are you looking for a way to diversify your academic record outside of engineering courses? Looking for a chance to test your philosophical detection skills? Etc.

If all you want to do is get a better understanding of other philosophies, you might be better off just picking up a good book on the history of philosophy. You can study that at your own pace and not have to deal with the likely intellectual corruption of humanities professors in modern universities. I think the Ayn Rand Bookstore sells a couple of such books, e.g. the Windelband. Objectivists have also had good things to say about the W. T. Jones. (Full disclosure: I haven't read either.)

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I go to a technical school (WPI: Worcester Polytechnic Institute) and very few philosophy courses are offered in. On top of that, the courses offered run something along the lines of "ethics in engineering" by which they mean altruism for the most part. Also the others offered are "Philosophy and relegion" and "environmental philosophy".

So my dilemma is, should i take some of these classes just to check out other philosophies, or would it just be a waste of my time?

thank you

Well, I certainly can't tell you what would and wouldn't be a waste of your time, but the right question to ask yourself is: What value (if any) is there to be gained by taking these, as opposed to other classes? The obvious value is credit for the course, but you could get that from any number of other courses, so you really need to weigh out all of the options and determine which course will help you the most in the long-term.

If you just want to learn "other points of view," ask yourself why. What purpose does that serve in your life? Is knowledge of other points of view and end in itself, or does/should it serve some practical function in your life?

Since you are attending a technical school, it doesn't appear you plan to have a profession in either philosophy or the humanities. So, you must not have some professional reason for studying environmentalism, religion, or altruism. Is there some personal reason why study of those particular subjects are useful to you?

The one that seems to me like it would be most relevant to you is "Ethics in Engineering." Do you know other people who have taken the class whom you might be able to ask about the subject matter? Perhaps you could browse through their textbooks and see if it really is just a wash of altruism or if there is any sort of rational ethics being studied in the course. If you're planning to be an Engineer, it may be valuable for you to take that class, just so you know where your future colleagues are coming from; understanding the kind of ethics they've been taught can be very helpful in dealing with them in the future.

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I go to a technical school (WPI: Worcester Polytechnic Institute) and very few philosophy courses are offered in. On top of that, the courses offered run something along the lines of "ethics in engineering" by which they mean altruism for the most part. Also the others offered are "Philosophy and relegion" and "environmental philosophy".

So my dilemma is, should i take some of these classes just to check out other philosophies, or would it just be a waste of my time?

thank you

At my university, Massey University, the philosophy classes also appear quite crappy. In fact, they appear to be quite typical of the rot taught in modern philosophy classes if the New Zealand courses are anything to go by (I have noticed certain other Americian universities offer papers that seem pretty much as bad).

Their paper guide used to state that they would question the possibility of knowledge in a "Knowledge and Reality " paper, and stuff like this (ask DraconMaci if you want more examples, he still has a copy of that book).

I will not take courses that, I would rather dedicate my time to A) Papers that more interest me (science ones) and study philosophy independently. I mean, I am sure there would be some benefit to taking these papers (such as understanding these philosophies better so I can more easily refute them), but I value papers such as Computer Science papers more.

Mind you, if the latest guides are anything to go by, they seem to have cleaned up the papers abit, so it might be worth looking into. Then I might do a couple of papers over by Summer Breaks...

Edited by Prometheus98876
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I reluctantly advise against it. I think the only potential point of taking a class like that is to figure out what is wrong with various other philosophies, and to hone your debating skills. However, philosophy teachers are notoriously hostile to Objectivism in general, because it sort of rains on their parade. The teacher will, in all likeyhood, take it personally and your grade will suffer.

It happened to me.

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These don't sound too promising. You need to get something useful out of the class, either via good content, good mental exercise, or at least learning more about why you DON'T agree with certain bad ideas. Here are my thoughts (based mostly on guesses, because I really don't that much info to go on):

"ethics in engineering" - If it discusses issues of when society should prevent certain activities, it will probably be based on altruism as you say. Personally, I don't know if I could take that for an entire class term.

"Philosophy and relegion"[sic] - If the class gets into the fundamentals of religion and philosophy, such as the basis of knowledge or of morality, it could be interesting, but it all depends on the readings and the professor.

"environmental philosophy" - I wouldn't take this unless you want nonstop criticism of your viewpoint and to be frustrated by leftist loonies in class. If they are willing to devote an entire class to this, then I think it's likely that the human-centered viewpoint is not the one they will be presenting, for the most part.

I would also think about whether you can get a good grade; personally I would not risk a bad grade to learn about bad philosophy that is ultimately of no use to you. Ask around about particular teachers to avoid the ones that may be irrational and unnecessarily difficult.

If you decide to take a class, be careful to make your assignments relevant to the class and meet the standards required by the professor. I was typically able to present Objectivist views as long as I met the requirements of the assignment. Each disipline, and professor, is different about what they think represents a successful paper, and you will be graded more by these rules than by the correctness of your philosophy.

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However, philosophy teachers are notoriously hostile to Objectivism in general, because it sort of rains on their parade. The teacher will, in all likeyhood, take it personally and your grade will suffer.

It happened to me.

It's unfortunate that you got one of those teachers. I haven't found this to be the general case, though. While most do tend to disagree with Objectivism, I have found that they do not take a firm stand on any philosophy whatsoever (egalitarianism at work?), and will grade based on the quality of work, rather than the philosophical content of a paper. There are those exceptions, though...

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I personally can’t speak for this situation, but I have a roommate that is a Philosophy / Political Science major for a local university. Part of the required curriculum is that his is to take several classes on understanding cultures like Islam, China, Russia, etc. I’ve looked through a few of his books and for the most part it’s mostly promotes these cultures as equal if not superior to our own due to the fact they haven’t changed in thousands of years. He also must take many philosophy classes that promote ideas and thoughts that, as an Objectivist, he does not agree with. This however does not keep him from taking the classes but rather gives him an arena to promote Objectivism.

From was I gather the classes are a sort of open forum where the teacher throws out a question and the students discuss it with each other. Numerous times he would come home and be mad because the class was learning about some altruistic philosophy and he is the only one there fighting against it. In his papers he would answer the idiotic questions asked by the teacher such as “if you had to re-write the Constitution using Taoism, what would be some major changes” then he would refute them with Objectivism. He wrote a 5 pages report on a similar topic and then wrote a 3 page paper explaining why it was irrational. If the teacher marked off a point for something that was right, my roommate would write a response and give specific examples and books where he found them.

What I'm trying to say is that don’t be afraid that you won’t learn anything from a philosophy class if it doesn’t support Objectivism. If you truly value Philosophy, and especially Objectivism, then learning about what else is out there and confronting at the source will only help in the long run. I’m not saying go into the class guns blazing, my roommate has read practically all Objectivism literature twice and knew what he was saying, but if you know what is being said is wrong and can prove it speak up.

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So my dilemma is, should i take some of these classes just to check out other philosophies, or would it just be a waste of my time?

I would answer this by looking at the historical content of the classes. I took one philosophy class in college and it was useful because it was History of Modern Philosophy (which meant Descartes, Locke, Hume and Kant). Regardless of how bad the philosophy is, it is valuable to know what certain philosophers said, what they meant, and what historical context they operated in. Furthermore, real philosophers before the 20th century were trying to solve real problems and were almost always quite intelligent, and thus worth your time to grapple with--even if you end up disagreeing with them.

On the other hand, I would unequivocally skip any class (if you can) that amounts to bull sessions where the students themselves debate philosophical topics (for instance, "what is ethical?"). You will not reach any minds in that class with your own arguments, nor will you hear any arguments worth refuting.

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Now that i think about it, that was my underlying question behind it. Is taking a class in philosophy going to teach me any more than reading a book and discussing it with others?

The value i wish to gain is to recieve a general knowledge on 'philosophy' because the only thing i know on the subject is Objectivism.

I'm also afraid that after learning about Objectivism, i'll simply scoff at all other philosophies and end up being bored, frustrated and with a low GPA.

I think i will go ahead and take 'philosophy and relegion' because i learned from talking to my seniors that it's nicknamed 'intro to philosophy' since they teach about antiquity philosophers and some relegion (not necessarily dealing with God).

Thank your for your responses. :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

I find in philosophy classes I have takent, Ive learned more with the sheer critical interaction with the material presented, than learning what they intend to teach me. My question is always "why are you teaching this, when there exists something better?" Philosophy can be as clear as algebra, but they insist on teaching really complicated formulas that are false at the root, but you dont know enough about math yet to prove them wrong. Im switching from philosophy to psychology, personally. Its the science that deals with the brain, which is as close to an objective philosophy class that Ill get.

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I find in philosophy classes I have takent, Ive learned more with the sheer critical interaction with the material presented, than learning what they intend to teach me. My question is always "why are you teaching this, when there exists something better?" Philosophy can be as clear as algebra, but they insist on teaching really complicated formulas that are false at the root, but you dont know enough about math yet to prove them wrong. Im switching from philosophy to psychology, personally. Its the science that deals with the brain, which is as close to an objective philosophy class that Ill get.

This is the exact opposite problem I have. I am currently at a "Public Ivy" University and I have moved my major from psychology to philosophy. Good Luck finding anybody who will say that human beings have free will, or that there are any values independant of the subjective. As far as a specific degree, Look for Biopsychology and "Cognitive Neuroscience" classes, this is the true science side of psychology, away from the absurdist veins that run through some sections of the discpline. Avoid "Social Psychology" like the plague, and make sure to determine what is the "philosophy" of any Abnormal Psych proffessors you may have.

The Culture surrounding my psych department was very leftist, and Anti-Objectivist, and I simply could not live inside of it. The Philosophy department at least recongizes that humans can have thoughts, and act in a moral way, even though there is much disagreement and conflict in the whole, but there is lots of room for that disagreement and conflict to lead to the truth, and much less chance a dissenter will be punished for their beliefs.

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Avoid "Social Psychology" like the plague

Why? It seems like it would be fairly dull to practice, but some of its results are interesting (notably the work of Solomon Asch, the Stanford prison experiment, and Milgram's research on obedience using electrocution. Theres also interesting new concepts practitioners in the field have discovered, such as cognitive dissonance, the halo effect, and the fundamental attribution error).

Edited by Hal
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Why? It seems like it would be fairly dull to practice, but some of its results are interesting (notably the work of Solomon Asch, the Stanford prison experiment, and Milgram's research on obedience using electrocution. Theres also interesting new concepts practitioners in the field have discovered, such as cognitive dissonance, the halo effect, and the fundamental attribution error).

Why? Because as Dikaiosyne already mentioned these classes are notorious for being nothing more than Collectivist propaganda courses. I took a similar course at my school and all it was was a professor telling us why we were not individuals. They spend the entire time explaining that the good of society is more important than you are.

Maybe you were lucky enough to not have such an experience. But most college students aren't so lucky.

Dikaiosyne: I couldn't agree with you more. My university was the same way. It's really too bad because there are some interesting topics in that area, but unfortunately I wasn't so lucky to have any neurology type courses at my school (unless I was in the college of medicine, which I wasn't) :(

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  • 6 months later...

Hmm, this post is old. However I want to add my view here.

I go to University of Louisville, KY. Psychology department seemes to have more "lunars" then in other departments.

First few weeks I went to the class, saw all the dirt that was being thrown at us. (How can you condemn the people who made modern psychology possible?) Skipped the rest, got B without learning anything, just using simple logic to figure out the most likely answer of the 4. (multiple choice, in a psychology department? since then using brain results into countable number of products one could achieve?)

That said, I did see few teachers who actually had some stuff, so you what you need to do is to find the individual you want to take a class from. Don't rely on the mass education.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well, now I'm sorry that I've joined so late, because the term you were thinking about taking a philosophy course in is obviously past. However, I think I'll offer my input anyways as a fellow WPI student (well, former.)

I took Philosophical Ethics with Professor Shikiar. It was a semi-interesting class, although not what I had been hoping. His focus was on the ideas of the philosophers we studied, not what our thoughts about them were. We had 4 short papers to write (book reports, essentially) and then 1 longer one. It was only in this last that we were supposed to add our own input to the papers, although in the class itself we did talk about our own views of the philosopher's ideas. The advantage to taking the class over just reading the books and discussing them with other students was that Shikiar was quite good at clarifying what a specific passage meant, and obviously knew the specifics of each philosophy discussed without subscribing to any of them. That said, I didn't like any of the philosophers covered, and having to write a synopsis of their philosophies was simple yet painful. I am, however, glad I took the course, mostly because I like to know how other people think in order to best refute what they're saying. Also, I think people at WPI are more likely to listen to an Objectivist viewpoint than students at other school might be, but I wouldn't be too vocal about what your specific view is. Instead, it's often more effective to ask questions that undermine the philosophy being discussed.

Knowing what you're up against is always a good thing. Besides, how are you supposed to think for yourself without learning about other viewpoints? The best way to learn those viewpoints is to discuss them with someone who has studied them thoroughly (ie: a professor.) Of course, you can study them yourself, but Kant is very hard to get through...

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