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hunterrose

V For Vendetta

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Has anyone heard of this movie? My first contact with it was by a Super Bowl commercial. It looked interesting, so I looked into it.

It's something like Dumas fiction meets a dystopian world. "Dystopian" is kind of a loaded and relative term, but specifically this movie seems to center around a totalitarian government and its freedom fighters.

V for Vendetta is based on a work by the great Alan Moore (creator of the greatest comic book ever) and is being done by the Wachowski Bros. team (Matrix.) Hopefully this won't be a letdown like Reloaded and Revolutions :D:lol:

Obligatory trailer link

Anywho, being a fan of survivalesque movies, I think this is interesting, and wonder if anyone else has any particular stance for (or against) it :D

Edited by hunterrose

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I was halfway through the preview and I couldn't stop laughing, joyously. I think that if it's written right it could be the first in a line of movies that will prepare the market for an Atlas Shrugged movie.

With lines like,

"The people should not be afraid of their government, the government should be afraid of their people."

and

"Fear became the ultimate tool for this government."

and

"...ideas are bulletproof."

All along with the protagonist being a revolutionist, if it portrays the right philosophical base, I will be exultantly happy. The blend of "vengeance" and violence will sell it to the average vegetable movie viewer hence I hope it portrays the right message. It already has my nine dollars.

MARCH 17 OPENING BTW

Edited by Proverb

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I was halfway through the preview and I couldn't stop laughing, joyously. I think that if it's written right it could be the first in a line of movies that will prepare the market for an Atlas Shrugged movie.

The graphic novel on which the movie is based is quite good. My one concern with the movie is the possibility that it will get hijacked into a 'message' flick attacking the War on Terror. The hero does engage in classic acts of terror, such as blowing up the houses of parliament, and the distinction between a terrorist and a revolutionary is subtle enough that I expect Hollywood to misunderstand it. At best, I'm hoping for a classic anti-fascism flick with solid production values. (And, if it's a commercial success, perhaps someone will get a chance to make a film out of Moore's other great graphic novel, WATCHMEN.)

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It's supposed to be loosely related to the Gunpowder Plot celebrated on Guy Fawkes day, originally that's when the movie was supposed to be released, if I remember right.

I'm going to go see it, personally.

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Also of note: the website for the movie is very good. All the of the trailers are available in high definition with good sound, and there is an interesting hangman game you can play there.

You are given a quote about government and need to guess who said it. Use too many letters and its a short drop and a sudden stop for Guy Fawkes. I think most of the people here would enjoy it.

A Little hint: tragically there is no Ayn Rand quotes, though they would be very appropiate.

http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/index2.html

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I've been looking forward to this one since I'd heard about it being in production as it is based on one of the best graphic novels ever written (along with 'The Watchmen'). The story, in the original plot, is very critical of Big Government and has shades of Mr. Peikoff's Ominous Parallels (but with the fascist state arising in Britain, not the US.

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I went out and bought the graphic novel this week, but V is one of the books that have been on my "get around to read list" for a few years now. The problem I think Objectivists may have with the movie is the hero's personal philosophy of anarchism. However, the main theme is freedom, specifically for people to live their own lives free of government control. Since I hate spoilers I won't give details, but there is one scene in the book that reminds me greatly of Anthem. I think, if they keep it true to Moore's work, everyone here would like it.

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I just finished reading the book in anticipation of the movie. It was the first time I have ever read a graphic novel, and I thought it was awesome!! I can't wait to see the movie. (Based on previous posts, I might have to check out the Watchmen and Anthem as well.)

I think the authors had to have some exposure to Ayn Rand, particularly the Fountainhead. There is the obvious theme of freedom, but also many hints of Rand's sense of life, and aesthetics as well. In addition, I was struck by many of the character's names. There is husband who was puppetted by his wife. Their last name is Heyer (Remember Francon's inactive partner in Fountainhead?) There is a character named Dominic, and one named Peter Creedy, who kept making me think of Peter Keating (These were just some names that jumped out at me, but may be purely coincidental.)

I think the author’s view of anarchy could perhaps be aligned with objectivism. They did differentiate between the chaotic anarchy as only a phase until order and living in peace prevails. I think that the format of the graphic novel didn’t leave much room to explain details of a philosophy, and an orderly form of anarchy was perhaps good enough.

I do also anticipate a let down by the movie. I can tell by the footage in the movie’s trailer, that Natalie Portman does not play a strong Evey. Hopefully I am wrong...and if anything, maybe it will inspire and get the world ready for a Rand movie someday.

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10 out of 10 out of 10 :D:lol::)

Did you see the movie? I haven't gotten around to it yet, so could you elaborate a little(without spoilers please!)? Is it worth watching in your opinion?

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A bit of trivia. The word 'guy' (as in some 'guy' called you) goes all the way back to the Guy Fawkes (the main character of the Vendetta is wearing his mask).

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I give it 3 out of 4 stars. I would have given it 3.5, but docked it half a star because I think the leftist leaning of the Wachowski Brothers was as obvious as could be expected from one of their movies. While I didn't disagree with any of the ideas that were explicitly put forth in the movie, here's a list of the leftist leanings that I saw (MAY BE SPOILERS):

  • the ruling party was a Christian fascist one...not that I would be in favor of a Christian fascist party, but this is something that the left is usually up-in-arms about
  • the two groups that were given as examples of "the oppressed" were Muslims and homosexuals
  • that poster in the talk show hosts's room that has a swastika on top of the British flag with the phrase "Coalition of the Willing"
  • a couple other jabs at the war in Iraq
  • a couple of jabs at the United States, in particular

Do you consider V a terrorist? Why or why not?

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I very much enjoyed this movie, and unusually I felt no desire to cry at the end, just uplifted by the very necessary and not-at-all tragic events.

I don't consider V to be a terrorist; it was the government that used terror as its weapon.

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I don't consider him a terrorist either. My reasoning is that "terrorism" must be committed when there still exist legitimate methods of recourse. In the fascist state of the movie, there existed no such methods. No freedom of speech and whatnot.

However, this begs the question...why was 9/11 considered an act of terrorism? It was committed by people who wanted US forces out of the Muslim holy land. These people didn't really have a legitimate means of getting them out.

I'm not saying I don't think that 9/11 was terrorism, because I certainly do. Here are the conditions that I believe must be met before calling something terrorism:

  1. committed by a non-state actor
  2. committed against civilians
  3. committed for the purpose of causing terror
  4. committed in the name of a political cause
  5. committed when there is still a legitimate means of recourse

Of these, V satisfies all but 2 and 5. Al Qaeda satisfies all but 5.

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I could not stop smiling at the end. It was an amazing movie. Though with the way the movies industry has been in the past years, I'm afraid the average person has stopped looking for messages in movies. V for Vendetta, I my opinion is deserving of the title 'art' unlike almost no other movies in the recent years.

I hope they make thier live-action DragonBall Z movie.

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I think the leftist leaning of the Wachowski Brothers was as obvious as could be expected from one of their movies. While I didn't disagree with any of the ideas that were explicitly put forth in the movie, here's a list of the leftist leanings that I saw (MAY BE SPOILERS):
  • the ruling party was a Christian fascist one...not that I would be in favor of a Christian fascist party, but this is something that the left is usually up-in-arms about
  • the two groups that were given as examples of "the oppressed" were Muslims and homosexuals

These two elements can't be laid solely at the feet of the Wachowski Brothers. They're present in the original graphic novel, e.g. Evy Hammond's description of the new fascist government making people vanish: "But then they started taking people away... all the black people, and the Pakistanis... white people too, all the radicals and the men who, you know, liked other men. The homosexuals." The presence of this kind of thing in the movie isn't an example of Hollywood distorting the source material to give it a leftist tone.

Now, the "coalition of the willing" thing is a clearer addition. In the original novel, the disaster that struck down most of the world was a nuclear war with the Soviet Union. It seems that in the movie, this backstory element has been changed to some kind of global disaster growing out of the war in the Middle East. That's not an unreasonable change, and shouldn't impact the overall plot of the film too much.

I've been waiting to see the film because I wanted to see how much of an anti-war tone had been inserted into it. From preliminary reports, it doesn't seem like it's too bad. That's good news, IMHO.

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No, it isn't an unreasonable change in light of current world events. However, the "US=Nazi Germany" routine is getting a bit old. Only a complete moron (or Noam Chomsky) can honestly believe that US actions in Iraq are comparable to the crimes of Nazi Germany.

Go watch Matrix: Reloaded again and you'll see another of the Wachowskis' idiocies. When Neo is in the room with the Architect and all the TV screens, there are a couple of seconds that show a speech by Hitler on the screens. The very next picture that appears on the screens is none other than George W. Bush. And, as was obvious by the screenplay in this movie (which the W brothers wrote), they don't believe in coincidences.

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I most certainly would not call Noam Chomsky a moron. He is certainly evil, but he is also highly intelligent...maybe even a genius. Many other people with warped ideas have been geniuses. BF Skinner, Sigmund Freud, Blaise Pascal, JS Mill, ADOLF HITLER, just to name a few.

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Did you see the movie? I haven't gotten around to it yet, so could you elaborate a little(without spoilers please!)? Is it worth watching in your opinion?
Definitely worth seeing. Elaborate? Hmm... an loquacious and theatrical idealist/madman (V) challenges the people to stand with him a year from now against their totalitarian state. Having made his statement public, the state thugs search for him through a female acquaintance (Evie,) while a policeman on the case questions the state's story and begins to sift through the government's actions. Is V willing to sacrifice everything for the sake of his dream? And is Evie strong enough to beat the state? Dum-dum-dum B)

Do you consider V a terrorist? Why or why not?
No more than Francisco.

Here are the conditions that I believe must be met before calling something terrorism:
  1. committed by a non-state actor
  2. committed against civilians
  3. committed for the purpose of causing terror
  4. committed in the name of a political cause
  5. committed when there is still a legitimate means of recourse

Of these, V satisfies all but 2 and 5. Al Qaeda satisfies all but 5.

I know 3 is usually considered a condition of terrorism, but I don't think the actor's intent is necessary. I think 2 and 5 are most significant, though when does a person have "legitimate recourse" and whether it delegitimizes blowing up things might be an interesting question. I might note that V might be considered guilty on 2 also.

I could not stop smiling at the end. It was an amazing movie. Though with the way the movies industry has been in the past years, I'm afraid the average person has stopped looking for messages in movies. V for Vendetta, I my opinion is deserving of the title 'art' unlike almost no other movies in the recent years.
Agreed. For example, I found the similarities (and differences) from The Count of Monte Cristo quite interesting.

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I just got back from seeing the movie, and I have to agree with a few of Moose's objections, specifically those elements that made the film anti-Conservative from a Liberal point of view. Not that I'm opposed to anti-Conservatism per se, but Liberal perspectives miss the mark while being full of good intentions.

I enjoyed V's character, and found his words to be very inspiring, but I would have felt more inspired if I had an idea of what he was fighting for, not just against. And I don't think he qualifies as a terrorist, either. I like his response to Evey's accusation that he stole from the government - "you can't steal from a thief; I simply reclaimed what didn't belong to him" (or something to that effect).

It's one for the DVD collection, but I doubt that this will be the preparation for an Atlas Shrugged film, as Proverb suggested. Especially if an AS adaptation is soon to come; I think the public would simply compare/contrast the two films' entertainment values, rather than see AS for its merits on its own.

Edited by synthlord

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In a way, V in the movie seemed better then the V from the graphic novels. Graphic Novel V is a annarchist through and through, Movie V knew that their had to be society and that he was simply not the best one to help lead and found it.

The movie was also surprisingly funny, the mock comedy sketch in the early half (before Evey is captured) was sheer brilliance.

Edited by Strangelove

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** SPOILERS ALERT **

I saw it this afternoon with my son and we both enjoyed it thoroughly!! I really wasn't too concerned with whether the totalitarian government sprang from the left or the right, the important thing was that it was a totalitarian government and it had to be overturned. Is a right wing totalitarian government any more acceptable than a left wing one?

That said, at first I didn't like the representation that America had fallen (or at least was in serious turmoil). Then I started thinking, did America really fall, or was that more manipulated news from the government. For anyone who has read it, is that clearer in the graphic novel? If you want people to fear freedom, it would be best to show the most widely recognized icon of freedom destroyed by it's liberty.

I like the fact that they never showed his face. His real appearance was unimportant, V could be any heroic man who stood up against tyranny. A distorted face could confuse people into that whole he's a "monster" thing. The emotion and the passion of V's character were very clear even though he wore a mask.

I loved how V's character gave NO sanction to evil. When he kills the woman in bed, he accepts that she apologizes and feels guilt for her atrocities, but he offers no reprieve (well, he couldn't have anyway at that point) from her wrongdoing just because now she was sorry.

I was pleased with my son's reaction to the movie. He's 17, but he took it seriously and later asked, "what can I do to avoid this from happening?" I then reminded him of the power of ideas. I told him; keep yourself informed, use your own mind and reason to learn what's true, live your life understanding the importance of freedom, don't let government just be something that happens to you, and keep these ideas alive when you talk with your friends or other people.

Sadly, I (as did my son) wonder if many people will consider this anything more than a graphic novel / comic book story.

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