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Bold Standard

My music available on Myspace.

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A little weird, Mr. Standard, but I think I like it.

: ) I feel similarly.. I'm not quite good enough yet to make the music that I think is ideal, but at least good enough not to make music that sounds like everything (or anything) else.

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If we do i'm out haha

I don't blame you-- my Aretha Franklin repertoire is pretty intimidating, I'm sure. ; D

(Just kidding, I've never tried to sing any Aretha Franklin songs.. not that I shouldn't..)

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Interesting efforts, Bold Standard. Good luck with that!

It is notable that there are so many [O]bjectivist musicians here. Think there is a correlation?

Thanks. As to there being a lot of Objectivists here, I'm sure there's a causal correlation. But I'm not sure if the amount of musicians is disproportionate or not.. Ayn Rand is one of the few philosophers in history (especially modern) to lay the groundwork for an intelligible aesthetic theory-- maybe that attracts musicians and artists in general? (There are a few writers and painters around, too..)

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Thanks. As to there being a lot of Objectivists here, I'm sure there's a causal correlation. But I'm not sure if the amount of musicians is disproportionate or not.. Ayn Rand is one of the few philosophers in history (especially modern) to lay the groundwork for an intelligible aesthetic theory-- maybe that attracts musicians and artists in general? (There are a few writers and painters around, too..)

I think the connection might be that artists (I mean those who create worthy art) are people who focus in-wards, because creating art requires someone with (a) emotional world (b ) awareness of one's emotions and self. Focusing in-wards and "listening to one's emotions" also requires independence.

So maybe this is why...

Heard your song, here is what I think (in the order that I thought as I was listening):

  1. The sound quality of the recording was kinda bad. Too bad.
  2. I liked the melody and the beat (not crazy about it but it's nice). It sounds strange, though it's difficult for me to point at the reason.
  3. Parts of the song (the chorus I think) Reminded me a lot of a song by REM, but I don't know the name of it. It goes something like "smiling happy people holding hands..." but the part of their song that resembles yours is not the chorus it's the one when they sing "meet me in the crowd... something something :D " .
  4. I liked your voice. The sound quality was bad so I couldn't tell for sure, but your voice transmits a strong atmosphere. Good singers have that ability - to transmit emotions through their voice. So :thumbsup:

Edit to fix that annoying thing with the B) whenever I want to write b )

Edited by ifatart

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Heard your song, here is what I think (in the order that I thought as I was listening):

    [*]The sound quality of the recording was kinda bad. Too bad.

    I agree. This was a very lo-fi attempt, at my friend's house, not in a studio-- recorded in a single evening. In addition, you might be listening to it on computer speakers, which are notoriously low quality, making my low quality recording sound even worse. It's kind of like if you had to do one of your paintings in crayon, and I were looking at it on an early color 8-bit monitor. If you haven't tried it with headphones, that might make it a little better. : P Otherwise, you'll have to wait for me to make a better recording or come see me when I start playing shows.. I know, it's kind of a long "drive."

    [*]I liked the melody and the beat (not crazy about it but it's nice). It sounds strange, though it's difficult for me to point at the reason.

    Does "it" refer to the melody, or the beat? Or something else? Can you think of some other music that is "strange" in a similar way, to give me some way to evaluate that term? If it's the beat, it's probably because the recording of the drum machine came out really bad.. <_< One person thought he heard record scratches.. lol, but I think that's just the hi-hats, that got a little distorted.

    [*]Parts of the song (the chorus I think) Reminded me a lot of a song by REM, but I don't know the name of it. It goes something like "smiling happy people holding hands..." but the part of their song that resembles yours is not the chorus it's the one when they sing "meet me in the crowd... something something :D " .

    lol, Funny.. Someone else said it reminded them of a Tears for Fears song called "Mad World." I haven't listened much to REM or Tears for Fears, but I know writing modal songs with four major chords in a row (I have four major chords in a row in the verse, and four in the chorus, then a it goes back and forth between two major chords, and ends off with three major chords; then the whole thing repeats) was a big thing in New Wave, and so a lot of those 80's bands wrote songs with similar chord progressions. This is kind of an experiment for me, because most of my other songs stick more or less to one key. I think there's something catchy and fresh about it, though.

    [*]I liked your voice. The sound quality was bad so I couldn't tell for sure, but your voice transmits a strong atmosphere. Good singers have that ability - to transmit emotions through their voice. So :thumbsup:

    Thanks, I really appreciate that. The voice is probably the most intimate instrument, being a direct product of my body-- so even if that were the best feature in my music, I would probably be most self-conscious about it. There are two vocal tracks on that version of the song, and they were both first takes. I think I could have gotten better vocal tracks if I'd had more time, but those came out pretty good. Some people say they have trouble understanding my lyrics.. If so, there is actually a link to the lyrics, in the box that plays the song, under the controls, and to the right of the picture of Gretta Garbo, next to something like "download," "rate," and "add."

Edited by Bold Standard

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Does "it" refer to the melody, or the beat? Or something else? Can you think of some other music that is "strange" in a similar way, to give me some way to evaluate that term?

It refers to the melody. By strange I mean something like a combination "mysterious" (for example. mysterious melodies sound like "You are my destiny" by Paul Anka or "The pink Panther"), and a bit melancholic. I think I can best describe it as something of Depeche mode. Some of their melodies are also strange like "Enjoy the silence" or "Shake the disease".

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It refers to the melody. By strange I mean something like a combination "mysterious" (for example. mysterious melodies sound like "You are my destiny" by Paul Anka or "The pink Panther"), and a bit melancholic. I think I can best describe it as something of Depeche mode. Some of their melodies are also strange like "Enjoy the silence" or "Shake the disease".

Thank you for mentioning "You are my Destiny," by Paul Anka! Actually, I had never heard this track before (and I wasn't familiar with Paul Anka, either), but since you mentioned it, I looked it up. I like it a lot, and I do think it has something(s) important in common with "Otto," although I'm not sure I know what it is any better than you do, yet.

I agree with you about my melodies being mysterious, but for some reason, they don't strike me as melancholic. I think they're laid back, but ultimately optimistic (I think I need to fix something in my voice leading or counterpoint on some level to better achieve that in this song--but I'm not exactly sure what yet). But then, a lot of music that people think is melancholic doesn't sound that way to me. I had the hardest time seeing why "even" Morrissey is considered depressing music by most people. I always thought he and the Smiths were happy and perky sounding, though his lyrics seem very Shavian and sometimes either cynical or tongue-in-cheek, neither of which elements appeal to me much. But then sometimes his lyrics are fresh or even poignant, and sometimes even uplifting (not unlike Nietzsche or Shaw, sometimes), and that has been an inspiration for me lately. But I don't know why I'm ranting about the Smiths..

Lots of other music that people consider melancholic.. such as Chopin's "Nocturnes," etc, doesn't seem that way to me. If I wanted to name something I think is melancholic--I think I'd pick something more like "It'll End in Tears" by This Mortal Coil (the song and even that whole album, for the most part). That's also a perfect integration of lyrics and music, for the most part. But melancholic is not really what I'm trying to go for now. Because I'm happy now, and I want to make happy music, and ultimately try to take people totally out of the modern music scene and into something else altogether. I haven't come very close to actualizing that yet.. but I'm working on it.

I've always loved "The Pink Panther" theme. Bacharach is an influence for me (meaning there are techniques he employs that I admire, and enjoy listening to, and try to figure out how to do myself), and that's one of my top favorite songs by him. (I used to randomly put Pink Panther stickers on envelopes I would mail to people). I wonder what made you think of that song, from hearing "Otto"! "Pink Panther" is so chromatic and jazzy. I'm glad if you can see a connection though; I'll have to look for one next time I play or listen to Otto. : )

Depeche Mode, I either love or hate, depending on the song and my mood. "Enjoy the Silence" is one that I usually like a lot, but I'm not sure if I'm familiar with the other one you mentioned (I'll look it up). One thing Depeche Mode proved, that is meaningful to me, is that you can have an extremely exciting and commercially popular musical performance with just synthesizers and drum machines and singing, and no obnoxious drummers clanging on cymbals, hurting everyone's ears.

I started out as a drummer--I played drums all through high school. Went to state marching band contest, took private lessons with an amazing jazz drummer (named Joe Raynor--he came in second place out of 40,000 contestants in a national Gene Krupa drumming competition in 1941, and he had all kinds of interesting insights on rhythm, music, dynamics, and "lost arts," as he used to refer to some of the techniques he taught me), etc. But since about the year 2000, I haven't been able to stand playing live drums, and have preferred using drum machines or looped samples. I'm considering hiring a drummer for my live shows with this project, but.. Well, I know I don't have to--and if you don't believe me I can just say, "Well, Depeche Mode did it!" : P

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I agree with you about my melodies being mysterious, but for some reason, they don't strike me as melancholic. I think they're laid back, but ultimately optimistic (I think I need to fix something in my voice leading or counterpoint on some level to better achieve that in this song--but I'm not exactly sure what yet). But then, a lot of music that people think is melancholic doesn't sound that way to me. I had the hardest time seeing why "even" Morrissey is considered depressing music by most people.

Lots of other music that people consider melancholic.. such as Chopin's "Nocturnes," etc, doesn't seem that way to me. If I wanted to name something I think is melancholic--I think I'd pick something more like "It'll End in Tears" by This Mortal Coil (the song and even that whole album, for the most part).

I don't know the songs you mentioned so I can't make any judgement if our judgement of what is "melancholic" is the same or not in other songs as well.

I want to emphasize that I was not making a direct comparison between "Otto" and the songs I've mentioned. I just mentioned them to explain what I mean by "mysterious" or "strange" in music.

I think Kate Bush's "Wuthering heights" and "the pink panther" are both mysterious, but the later gives the atmosphere of a detective story, with dark Bars and dark alleys, and the first is mysterious because there is a shred of insanity (or possession) in it and yet it is intense emotionally and describes a highly personal experience. Very different songs but they both sound mysterious to me.

One thing Depeche Mode proved, that is meaningful to me, is that you can have an extremely exciting and commercially popular musical performance with just synthesizers and drum machines and singing, and no obnoxious drummers clanging on cymbals, hurting everyone's ears.

Is "Just can't get enough" an example? I love that song, it is very happy and the the synthesizer just makes it unique.

Edited by ifatart

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I think Kate Bush

I think you've got pretty good taste in pop music! ; )

Is "Just can't get enough" an example? I love that song, it is very happy and the the synthesizer just makes it unique.
Ha, yeah that one's cool. I think my favorites (musically, I mean--their lyrics are usually pretty lame so I don't pay attention to them) are "Everything Counts" and "A Question of Lust." They have some other good ones but I can't think of them right now.

I don't know the songs you mentioned so I can't make any judgement if our judgement of what is "melancholic" is the same or not in other songs as well.

There's not a video for "It'll End in Tears," but here's the main single from that album: Song to the Siren. It's a little melancholic, but I'd say wistful is a better description of this particular song. This Mortal Coil was actually a collaboration of different bands from the 4ad label, and this track is actually performed by (members of) another band called Cocteau Twins (my favorite pop group). It's a Tim Buckley cover (the concept of This Mortal Coil was primarily to redo songs that 4ad owner Ivo Watts-Russell liked).

The "Nocturnes" were a series of pieces that Chopin composed that were intended to be performed at night (hence the name). There are much better "Nocturnes" and better performances than this, but it was about the only one I could find with a quick search on Youtube that wasn't a student recital, and didn't cut off in the middle:

Here's Morrissey:

Girlfriend in a Coma (The Smiths)

Seasick Yet Still Docked (Morrissey) (This is his most "melancholy" song, as far as I know, at least, in the context of the way it sounds).

Interlude (duet with Siouxsie Sioux)

Hm, I guess.. To a certain extent, whether this music is melancholic or not depends on if you're in a melancholic mood or not, to begin with. Maybe "melancholic" music just means that you can listen to it when you feel melancholy, and it will not clash with your mood. If that's what it means, then I guess most of those songs are melancholic. But if it means that it makes you feel melancholy when you're in an otherwise good mood, then I think I'd disagree with some of the songs, and agree with others. As to my song, it doesn't make me melancholy when I'm in a good mood, and I don't know if it would clash when I'm already melancholic, because it puts me in a good mood even if I know I'm about to hear it--but maybe just 'cause it's my song. : )

Edited by Bold Standard

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Listened to all your links. It was melancholic. you sure know how to pick them.

I don't like melancholic things. For example, the Chopin piece makes me thing "oh this poor man, the tragedy he must have been going through", and I don't like thinking those things, unless they occur in my life or in the life of someone I care about, and I have no choice but to deal with them.

So here is something with a bit more combat spirit to cheer ya up: Vanesa Mae, Fugue in D minor

BTW, I liked Tim Buckley's version better. The original is almost always better.

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Hey Bold. Listened to your songs. I like "Just burns". Like Otto, it too has this "strangeness" to it. Now don't laugh, but it's the same sort of strangeness of The doors, which makes me think that whoever did this music (which is you in this case) must have been taking drugs... (But I know you don't).

All three songs have a certain tranquility to them, which I like.

It seems like the music is about a personal experience which is very remote from the "outside world", if you know what I mean.

I don't like the other two songs: Bonus and Souvenir. They make me feel like I'm lost in some strange world (or dream), and I can't see my way out of that place, and nothing is real anymore or tangible.

I also thought that "Just burns" was a bit too repetitive: not a lot of change in the melody during the song.

Looking forward to hear new stuff.

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I don't blame you-- my Aretha Franklin repertoire is pretty intimidating, I'm sure. ; D

(Just kidding, I've never tried to sing any Aretha Franklin songs.. not that I shouldn't..)

...as is my Al Hibbler repetoire. ;)

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Now don't laugh, but it's the same sort of strangeness of The doors, which makes me think that whoever did this music (which is you in this case) must have been taking drugs... (But I know you don't).
Lol, now how could expect me not to laugh? But then, you would probably expect me to be disobedient anway. : P

The Doors comparison is interesting, because I don't listen to them very often (or any other 60's music really) but I do like some of their songs. Hm, I wonder what similarities between my music and The Doors you are picking up on. For now, I'll just assume it's the "singer as sex icon" thing and move on. ; )

Do you think that taking a drug of a certain type necessarily causes different people to make the same type of art? Why would this happen?

All three songs have a certain tranquility to them, which I like. It seems like the music is about a personal experience which is very remote from the "outside world", if you know what I mean.
Hmm.. I'm not sure I know what you mean. Does "outside world" mean the way other people perceive the world, or the way the world really is? If it's the former, then I think you really appreciate what I'm trying to do. If it's the latter, although my music is (or tries to be) an idealized version of the way I experience things, I do my best to be honest, and not to get to a place that escapes or avoids the point. (I don't know if that made any sense; if not maybe I can restate what I meant better later).

I don't like the other two songs: Bonus and Souvenir. They make me feel like I'm lost in some strange world (or dream), and I can't see my way out of that place, and nothing is real anymore or tangible.
Hm, yeah, I think I agree with you about Souvenir. There is something wrong with it.. Actually, quite a few things I'm aware of; but also something more fundamental that I need to fix that I haven't quite figured out.. I like that you said "tangible," I think it needs something to make it more like that.. (Actually, I think the lyric "Stone statues on the ground" was a half-attempt at groping for that; but it's a problem in the song itself, not just the lyrics--the lyrics, like all of my songs, were inspired by the music).

I don't completely agree about Bonus though. There are some problems, and some work I still need to do on it; but I really like the basic idea, and I think the execution of it that comes across in that recording is decent. It is a dream, but I don't think it's a nightmare. I think it is at least approaching one of those dreams that's more vivid than waking life--one of the dreams in which your subconscious finally grasps or begins to grasp some interesting and deeply rooted issues that have been brewing beneath the surface for some time, and then it presents it to you in a manner which is so intense, that when you wake up, you feel inspired, and spend the rest of the day trying to understand the deeper implications of the dream, and trying to recapture that urgent, ecstatic emotion that encapsulated you when you first woke up. That's what I want it to be, anyway--because I love that feeling, and I'd love to be able to make other people experience something like that by listening to my song.. I at least want to make a song that can make me feel that way, when I listen to it. Another thing I like about Bonus is that I think the guitar sound which is playing the melody is pretty interesting--to me, it sound almost like a cello or violin. Could be better, though.. Especially the part at the end when it gets louder--that could be done much, much better. I like the chord progression on that part, but the melody is a little weak and maybe a little too "smooth jazz," or something (I was actually making this song up on the spot as I was recording it, so the melodies I chose weren't always the most intelligent, because of limitations in my performance as well as some of the theory).. I want to add some other instruments for that part too, but I haven't decided what yet.

I also thought that "Just burns" was a bit too repetitive: not a lot of change in the melody during the song.
Yeah, this version of it did come out that way.. I've been thinking the same thing when I listen to it. I have other melodies I do sometimes, but also the recording, arrangement, and the sounds I'm using have a lot to do with why it sounds so repetitive. Not to mention, my performance was a little half-assed; that's because this was actually my very first attempt at recording on my new multitrack, so I was in such a hurry to just get something down and see how it would sound, I think I was a little sloppy. Also, this song could really use some bass--I don't have a bass at my house right now, so I haven't been able to record one yet. I guess I could do it on a keyboard.. Hm.

Well, thanks for the criticisms, Ifat. It's interesting and very refreshing to get the reaction of an unusually intelligent as well as artistic and honest person to my music.

Looking forward to hear new stuff.
Good, me too! : D

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Lol, now how could expect me not to laugh? But then, you would probably expect me to be disobedient anyway. : P

Yep. Disobedient enough to not even think about what I expect :) .

The Doors comparison is interesting... Hm, I wonder what similarities between my music and The Doors you are picking up on.

Found a perfect video clip to explain the similarity: Riders on the storm. This song has that strange atmosphere that I was talking about, and also that feeling of being very disconnected from "the outside world".

Does "outside world" mean the way other people perceive the world, or the way the world really is?

Amm, more like the first. I'll explain what I mean: Think of times when you find yourself dreaming of something or thinking about it, and you become so focused on it, that you forget where you are and what you are doing there... for example, it happens to me when I take the bus or train, I might get so caught up in my thoughts that the images outside pass me by and I don't notice them, and sometimes I would even almost forget to get off at my station because of it.

The "outside world", is the immediate reality that I am in: the stores and people outside, my goal (why I am on the bus, where I am heading to), and also the fact I have assignments to do for tomorrow, the details of getting out of the station and getting back home. The outside world has a rather fast pace, and it's perception is clear and sharp (as opposed to vague).

The perception of the inner world is (for me) more slow, less clear (because I can't use my vision to perceive it, but instead I need to use my imagination and memory), sometimes it involves some subconscious content which connects my more conscious thoughts together, so overall it is less "sharp".

So The doors song that I link has exactly that thing: that act of looking inside and getting lost in one's imagination and inner world. The pace is different: much more slow, the sounds are different, less sharp and clear...

I also find this specific song by them very interesting: it feels like looking at a riddle when I listen to it, as if the writer of the song thought of the meaning of life, and thought of something which I understand but cannot put into words.

I find the connection between music and the actual ideas behind it so very interesting. It is teasing, because as I listen to the music it makes me think of certain ideas which I am unable to fully put into words, and I feel compelled to solve the riddle in it.

Do you think that taking a drug of a certain type necessarily causes different people to make the same type of art? Why would this happen?

First I'll explain why it made me think of drug use: take the song that I linked: the reason why it makes me think that whoever wrote it must have been taking drugs is because of how much it is remote from "the real world", and drugs can cause exactly this: to blure on'e perception of reality and instead focused on some illusions or inner thoughts.

Since a certain drug can cause the same "mood" or "sensation" for different people, the mood of the song might be affected by the drug greatly, thus causing songs by different artists, who took the same drug, to sound similar. But I still think that the style of art will always depend primarily on the artist's full "sense of life".

The lyrics, like all of my songs, were inspired by the music).

Huh. Interesting that you would write the melody first and then the lyrics. It seems like the right order to create music to me, because I always thought that the "soul" of a song exists in it's melody more than in it's lyrics, in the same way that a person's character is more about the ideas they hold subconsciously and the emotions that come from them, than about their explicit, declared philosophy.

I don't completely agree about Bonus though. There are some problems, and some work I still need to do on it; but I really like the basic idea, and I think the execution of it that comes across in that recording is decent. It is a dream, but I don't think it's a nightmare.

It's not a nightmare, but it makes me feel lost.

I think it is at least approaching one of those dreams that's more vivid than waking life

Not for me, it didn't feel more vivid than waking life.

Well, thanks for the criticisms, Ifat. It's interesting and very refreshing to get the reaction of an unusually intelligent as well as artistic and honest person to my music.

:worry: ! I can understand the need for someone who can understand art.

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Yep. Disobedient enough to not even think about what I expect :huh: .
Ohh, what did you expect me to think?

Found a perfect video clip to explain the similarity: Riders on the storm. This song has that strange atmosphere that I was talking about, and also that feeling of being very disconnected from "the outside world".
Well, that's interesting, because that is precisely the song that comes to my mind when I think of The Doors. In fact, it's been playing off and on repeatedly in my head since you told me you thought we were alike. I think that my songs and that song are alike, and strange, in the sense that they're not quite rock, pop, or blues--they're strange in the sense that they don't fit into a familiar genre or the familiar set of emotions those genres have trained people to relate to music. They're also both intense without being abrasive.

Amm, more like the first. I'll explain what I mean: Think of times when you find yourself dreaming of something or thinking about it, and you become so focused on it, that you forget where you are and what you are doing there... for example, it happens to me when I take the bus or train, I might get so caught up in my thoughts that the images outside pass me by and I don't notice them, and sometimes I would even almost forget to get off at my station because of it.
Yeah, that happens to me whenever I don't take my Adderall. They say it's ADD. : )

The "outside world", is the immediate reality that I am in: the stores and people outside, my goal (why I am on the bus, where I am heading to), and also the fact I have assignments to do for tomorrow, the details of getting out of the station and getting back home. The outside world has a rather fast pace, and it's perception is clear and sharp (as opposed to vague).
The outside world has a fast pace? How do you determine this? Is it the same tempo on a rainy day as a sunny day? Does it change with seasons, or on weekends, or at night? Is it objective, or does it depend on your state of mind? I'd like to write some more extrospective songs.

The perception of the inner world is (for me) more slow, less clear (because I can't use my vision to perceive it, but instead I need to use my imagination and memory), sometimes it involves some subconscious content which connects my more conscious thoughts together, so overall it is less "sharp".
Oh.. Maybe my extrospection is less clear because I need glasses. I've needed them for years, but I haven't had optical insurance. My perception of my inner world seems much more distinct by comparison--it doesn't require nearly as much concentration to bring it into focus.

So The doors song that I link has exactly that thing: that act of looking inside and getting lost in one's imagination and inner world. The pace is different: much more slow, the sounds are different, less sharp and clear...
The sounds in that song don't seem sharp or clear to you? You know what I think it is.. It's the reverb. I use lots of reverb in the songs I've posted (*especially* bonus), and so do they in this song. Reverb is an effect that simulates the type of echo you would hear in a concert hall or a cave, or even a small room, depending on the type used. Originally, reverb was generated by playing the sounds through a spring or a metal plate, but I use a digital reverb. Some distinction can be lost with a lot of reverb, in a certain sense, but other aspects of the tone can become more distinct.

I also find this specific song by them very interesting: it feels like looking at a riddle when I listen to it, as if the writer of the song thought of the meaning of life, and thought of something which I understand but cannot put into words.

I find the connection between music and the actual ideas behind it so very interesting. It is teasing, because as I listen to the music it makes me think of certain ideas which I am unable to fully put into words, and I feel compelled to solve the riddle in it.

Yeah, I think I know what you mean--although I've never listened to the lyrics, it does kind of sound like that.

First I'll explain why it made me think of drug use: take the song that I linked: the reason why it makes me think that whoever wrote it must have been taking drugs is because of how much it is remote from "the real world", and drugs can cause exactly this: to blure on'e perception of reality and instead focused on some illusions or inner thoughts.
The implication in this statement is that one's inner thoughts are not real. Is that what you meant?

Since a certain drug can cause the same "mood" or "sensation" for different people, the mood of the song might be affected by the drug greatly, thus causing songs by different artists, who took the same drug, to sound similar. But I still think that the style of art will always depend primarily on the artist's full "sense of life".
I think sense of life might even effect the moods and sensations of certain drugs.

Huh. Interesting that you would write the melody first and then the lyrics. It seems like the right order to create music to me, because I always thought that the "soul" of a song exists in it's melody more than in it's lyrics, in the same way that a person's character is more about the ideas they hold subconsciously and the emotions that come from them, than about their explicit, declared philosophy.
Yeah, maybe a more skilled lyricist and songwriter could write a fully integrated song by making up lyrics first and then the song (or by making a song inspired by an old poem, like Carmina Burana or something), but I'm not quite that talented yet. Eventually I'd like to try it!

It's not a nightmare, but it makes me feel lost.
Hmm.. But don't you like some elements of fantasy in art? Why does the creator of Lost in Jungle and Woman in a Dark Garden feel uncomfortably lost when she hears this song?

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Alert! System overload! Hahaha... I'll try to handle this long post...

Ohh, what did you expect me to think?

Nothing, the "don't laugh" in "don't laugh but this song sounds like you do drugs" was just a preparation line for something funny, I didn't actually expect you not to laugh. Other than that I didn't expect you to think anything (I swear!).

In fact, it's been playing off and on repeatedly in my head since you told me you thought we were alike.

I meant that both songs have that "strange atmosphere" and that feeling of being detached from what I called "the outside world", but other than these similarities I think that the style is different, the pace is different.

Yeah, that happens to me whenever I don't take my Adderall. They say it's ADD. : )

I knew it! I knew I had an attention disorder! I have the rest of the symptoms as well: inability to focus on homework assignments, inability to do boring tasks or to listen to something boring. I am a classic fit :P .

The outside world has a fast pace? How do you determine this? Is it the same tempo on a rainy day as a sunny day? Does it change with seasons, or on weekends, or at night? Is it objective, or does it depend on your state of mind?

Definitely not objective, it is subjective, in the same way that your sensation of how much time passes by is subjective and may depend on the activity you're doing ("time flies by when you're having fun").

This perception of the "pace" of the "outside world" also changes with mood and external conditions such as weather/time of day. For me the day has a much faster pace than the night, and a sunny day has a faster pace than a rainy day.

I'd like to write some more extrospective songs.

What do you mean by that?

Maybe my extrospection is less clear because I need glasses.

lol!! I don't think so Bold... Was this intended to be a joke?

My perception of my inner world seems much more distinct by comparison--it doesn't require nearly as much concentration to bring it into focus.

Maybe it is easier to engage in thoughts about the "inner world", but it is more difficult to have those thoughts in focus, conscious and organized than thoughts about things you perceive with your eyes. The ideal would be an ability to think of all your "inner world thoughts" in an organized, conscious manner when it is possible to analyze them.

I think it is more difficult to think clearly about the reasons for your emotions, than think clearly about the rout of the car which you see in the street before you. The first requires more effort I think, and the second is clear without a lot of effort, but automatically.

The sounds in that song don't seem sharp or clear to you? You know what I think it is.. It's the reverb. I use lots of reverb in the songs I've posted

Two misunderstanding (and a question):

1) I wasn't talking about your songs, I was talking about The doors'.

2) I need to phrase what I said better: by "clear and sharp sounds" I was talking about the melody more than about the sounds: about the combination and not about each specific note.

3) What is a reverb? is that like an echo?

The implication in this statement is that one's inner thoughts are not real. Is that what you meant?

Holly cow, no!

I said "drugs can cause exactly this: to blure one's perception of reality and instead [make one] focused on some illusions or inner thoughts"

There is an "or" between illusions and inner thoughts.

I think sense of life might even effect the moods and sensations of certain drugs.
Yeah, I think the experience has to be a combination of both.

maybe a more skilled lyricist and songwriter could write a fully integrated song by making up lyrics first and then the song

I think that a good artist should form their art "around" the element which expresses their SoL the best, which creates in them the most excitement. If someone gets their kick by writing the lyrics first and then building the melody to describe it, that might be good as well.

but I'm not quite that talented yet. Eventually I'd like to try it!

Have fun training.

Hmm.. But don't you like some elements of fantasy in art? Why does the creator of Lost in Jungle and Woman in a Dark Garden feel uncomfortably lost when she hears this song?

:) Fantasy art can be good if there is some idea which is clear and is centered in the painting.

I hope this doesn't offend you but to me Bonus sounds like it lacks that certain clear idea or motive in the core of it. I'll try listening to it again though and see if I missed something.

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A lot of musicians on the forum. We should have an "Objectivist Idol" contest :P

lol, I'm game.. Do we have to sing acapella? : )

I'd so be in if we did this. It'd be fun! :)

I like the music, Bold. :)

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