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konerko14

The type of people that become Objectivists

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Ponderers vs Non-Ponderers  

50 members have voted

  1. 1. Are you a ponderer or non-ponderer

    • Ponderer
      40
    • Non-Ponderer
      2


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I am going to split up humans into two categories to show what type of people are most likely to become(if not already) atheists and the type of people who are most likely to be religious. Its between the ponderers and the non-ponderers.

Ponderers: the ones who are willing and have a desire to think deeply about things in general; common issues ponderers think of: existence, reality, the universe, humans. Ponderers are more aware of themselves and their surroundings, which make them understand them better too. Ponderers are more likely to be atheists- and Objectivists.

?What makes ponderers choose to ponder. Some its to fill a void in their life, such as boredom or loneliness. Others, its because they are curious to know the answers to the world. But whatever the reason, they are ponderers nonetheless.

Non-ponderers: ones who are aware only of superficialities, who are afraid to know. They are most likely to be very selfless, dependent on other people and their judgment. They spend their time having meaningless conversations- they are more social since they have that need for others. But they are usually afraid to have an honest, serious, thoughtful conversation. Also, they are more likely to be religious.

Some non-ponderers actuallly ponder during one time of the day: at their jobs. The difference between job ponder and life ponder is that during job ponder it is exactly that: the job. Its not thinking about their personal life, the universe, the meaning of life, or things like that. ?Are they afraid to think or are they afraid of the answers they may find. I think the last one.

?Do you agree with the assessment.

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I think that the statement, "Ponderers are more likely to be atheists or Objectivists than non-ponderers" is valid. So yes, I would agree with your assessment.

With that said, just because one ponders does not mean that one uses reason in their musings. Whether or not someone abides strictly by reason and logic is a more accurate way of predicting whether they will an atheist or a theist and an Objectivist or a subjectivist.

?Also, has this method of typing questions been adopted by the forum.

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Konerko, I swear, I just saw the title of the thread and I immediately thought it must have been you that started it. This is the exact same type of question like your "How do the characters in Atlas Shrugged chose their philosophy" thread.

The thread you should actually participate in is The thread about volition. Don't know if you realize it or not, but this is the bottom line in both of your threads.

Edited by ifatart

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With that said, just because one ponders does not mean that one uses reason in their musings. Whether or not someone abides strictly by reason and logic is a more accurate way of predicting whether they will an atheist or a theist and an Objectivist or a subjectivist.

I just thought the person who ponders that still hasnt discovered Objectivism or atheism, probably doesnt use reason consistently since they havent accepted a rational moral code yet. But since they do ponder, one of their first major conclusions they will make is going to be about atheism, because we all know thats the age old question. I think most serious ponderers are ones who spend their time trying to figure out the most common questions people have of the world, not so much ponderers who waste their entire time on evil thoughts. Even irrational ponderers are bound to have a meaningful and good thought pop into their head once and while, and they will be very curious about it.

?Also, has this method of typing questions been adopted by the forum.

It will catch on.

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The thread you should actually participate in is The thread about volition. Don't know if you realize it or not, but this is the bottom line in both of your threads.

This thread is about trying to depict the reason why certain people do or do not choose to accept Objectivism. Its obviously a fact that some reject it, and that must mean there is a reason for their decision. Its not about free will and determinism- its all about free will.

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This poll is one of the most funny threads I have ever seen in this forum.

I mean, who in their right mind would tell you: "I am not a ponderer. Thinking stresses me out. The very act of pondering whether or not I'm a ponderer makes me anxious".

The only type of people that would vote "non-ponderer" are those who hold a philosophy of mindless pleasure as the good, and anyone who practices it as the smart and cool. And those people are not likely to ever walk into this thread, since they would be in the beach or with their friends in the car "ripping the town with full volume" (it's a translation from an Hebrew phrase, hope it makes sense to you).

so what do you hope to achieve by this poll, Konerko?

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I mean, who in their right mind would tell you: "I am not a ponderer. Thinking stresses me out. The very act of pondering whether or not I'm a ponderer makes me anxious".

Well now that is an awfully funny response. I know a lot of people who are "predisposed to action" and are proud of it. They particularly think that sitting and working out nuances (i.e. pondering) is a waste of time.

Edited by KendallJ

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No, that's not true.

You have more knowledge? Please, do share.

Also, who is the wise-guy that voted "non-ponderer"? :lol: I dare you to reveal yourself!

Edited by ifatart

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so what do you hope to achieve by this poll, Konerko?

To show that most people interested in Objectivism are ponderers. The non-ponderers I know are the most irrational people I know. The most serious ponderers I know are atheists. I think the most serious ponderers are the ones who spend their weekends doing something intellectually stimulating while the non-ponderers are the ones more likely to get drunk.

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To show that most people interested in Objectivism are ponderers. The non-ponderers I know are the most irrational people I know. The most serious ponderers I know are atheists. I think the most serious ponderers are the ones who spend their weekends doing something intellectually stimulating while the non-ponderers are the ones more likely to get drunk.

I just don't see how it is possible that anyone who set foot in your thread (or in this forum) is someone who looks down on thinking.

Oh, and as for that "non-ponderer" vote - I have my suspicions that it's you (konerko). You like pranks, admit you did it!

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I just don't see how it is possible that anyone who set foot in your thread (or in this forum) is someone who looks down on thinking.
Wait, I don't get the connection. Thinking and pondering aren't the same thing: pondering is a kind of thinking. In my experience, some thinkers don't like to ponder, because pondering is too undisciplined -- it lacks methodicality.

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Wait, I don't get the connection. Thinking and pondering aren't the same thing: pondering is a kind of thinking. In my experience, some thinkers don't like to ponder, because pondering is too undisciplined -- it lacks methodicality.

So what exactly is pondering? Why does it lack methodicality? Why is it undisciplined?

How can you enjoy thinking but not enjoy pondering?

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So what exactly is pondering? Why does it lack methodicality? Why is it undisciplined?

How can you enjoy thinking but not enjoy pondering?

I want to try to explain it with a concrete example. A serious ponderer who sees a cat playing with a toy mouse will start to observe him meticulously. He will wonder if the cat thinks its alive, if the cat has good fighting instincts- what he should be doing different, and then wonders if the cat would enjoy going outside- why or why not, would the cat attack a real mouse the same way, etc etc. The cat may be done playing at this point, but the ponderer is not necessarily done thinking and wondering about it.

The thinker, however, would not get enjoyment out of this type of thinking. He would prefer reading a book on cat behavior instead. This way he wont have to deal with random thoughts going through his head.

While the non-ponderer and non-thinker only observes the obvious and he only goes as far as his initial thought reaction, which in this case is that the cat is stupid because the cat thinks the string is alive. The non-ponderer and non-thinker would suddenly get an urge to splash the cat with water because he acts on whims.

A little something else. The thinker talks about stats and facts, such as: "The atmosphere on that planet consists of helium, nitrogen, and oxygen. It is 3.2 light years away from earth." Opposed to the ponderer: "If you look at that planet with a telescope you can see its 7 rings. I wonder if rings around earth would affect civilization here. Maybe man could do something productive with them."

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So what exactly is pondering? Why does it lack methodicality? Why is it undisciplined?
Well, pondering is by nature unfocused; it's casual, typically superficial. often given to whimsical methodology. It contrasts with, say, research, which is by nature focused, methodical, deep and typified by rigorous methodology.
How can you enjoy thinking but not enjoy pondering?
By instead enjoying the focused application of the mind, with a definite purpose that is more a part of your central purpose in life, andfollowing a rigorous methodology. At least that is how I can enjoy thinking free of pondering. Now perhaps if you've defined "ponder" differently, that might explain the apparent disagreement.

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No, I voted ponderer. By the way, ?who are you.

Not that this has anything to do with anything in this topic, I think I'm going to adopt this way of asking questions. ? Who's with me.

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To show that most people interested in Objectivism are ponderers. The non-ponderers I know are the most irrational people I know. The most serious ponderers I know are atheists. I think the most serious ponderers are the ones who spend their weekends doing something intellectually stimulating while the non-ponderers are the ones more likely to get drunk.

I disagree. I do some of my most serious pondering when I'm stoned. ;)

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I think the entire question is bogus, verging on silly. Actually, skip the verging part. People aren't predisposed to ponder or not ponder, and ponderance is not central or primary to anyone's character or their approach to the world, so I don't think you're going to learn anything by asking people whether they like to sit around and think a lot. Besides, konerko, how do you know whether the people you don't like ponder or not? Do you go around asking people whether they're ruminating on matters of vast philosophical import or just staring into space? Did you do a survey?

Much more instructive would be to ask them what they think about and what motivates them to do so.

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I agree fully with your statement. The people who think are the ones who have the potential to discover the truth. The people who take things at face value and do not question what is told to them can only hope that what they are told is the truth. Regardless, they believe blindly. To believe blindly is to not think, to not ponder.

Edited by Mimpy

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JMeganSnow is right. This poll is completely useless.

"Non-ponderers: ones who are aware only of superficialities, who are afraid to know." Who is going to admit to this? Even someone who would fall into the category would probably deny it. You might as well have given us the options "Stupid, or non-Stupid."

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