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mweiss

Jesus Found Dead in His Grave

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This ought to really shake up the religious world:

http://urbansemiotic.com/2007/02/25/jesus-...d-in-his-grave/

What if enough of the Bible is exposed to prove that it is nearly all, if not all, fiction? What then will the religionists cling to?

Anyway, if there is a movie coming out as this article suggests, then I'm going to be interested in seeing it.

Why isn't this all over the major news media? Has anyone else heard of this discovery?

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What if enough of the Bible is exposed to prove that it is nearly all, if not all, fiction? What then will the religionists cling to?

Umm...faith, I'm guessing.

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Why isn't this all over the major news media? Has anyone else heard of this discovery?

This is all over the news media - well, it was a few days ago.

I heard about it a long time ago; I believe BBC did a documentary on it in 1996, or something like that. I think it got all over the news media only because the director of Titanic is the one doing the "new" documentary about it.

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This is all over the news media - well, it was a few days ago.

I heard about it a long time ago; I believe BBC did a documentary on it in 1996, or something like that. I think it got all over the news media only because the director of Titanic is the one doing the "new" documentary about it.

My wife listens to the radio and all she mentioned was that computer glitch on the Dow-Jones, not this...

I found more information on the topic of Cameron's new documentary here:

http://www.plastic.com/comments.html;sid=0...13231591;cid=43

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This ought to really shake up the religious world:

It has. Several religious-right columnists have been shaken into dismissing the whole thing as a hoax already.

What if enough of the Bible is exposed to prove that it is nearly all, if not all, fiction? What then will the religionists cling to?

Religion. What else?

Think about it. If one can believe without evidence, then any actual evidence that contradicts your beliefs can be just as easily disbelieved.

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It has. Several religious-right columnists have been shaken into dismissing the whole thing as a hoax already.

I think they're essentially correct, though. It seems to really be stretching it to assume this was Jesus' family just because of extremely common names carved on ossuaries. Maybe not a hoax, but at least a fabrication.

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I think they're essentially correct, though. It seems to really be stretching it to assume this was Jesus' family just because of extremely common names carved on ossuaries. Maybe not a hoax, but at least a fabrication.

I was half joking.

After all, how do you go about finding evidence to either support or debunk a myth? A full grave, crypt, bone repository, etc, can be dismissed by the myth's proponents as a fake, a fabreication, someone else's resting palce, etc. An empty grave proves nothing either way.

Faith is irrational, and myths are fabrications at worst and gross distortions of real events at best. Rationally, the notion of God, the divinity of Jesus, etc are not credible due to lack of evidence. Irrationally, no evidence, for or against would ever suffice.

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Right, which is why it's insulting to me (as a human being) that people are trying to use this bunk to attack Christianity. That's just not the right way to do it - it concedes far too much to the Christians. It presupposes that their assumptions have some validity, and then tries to disprove them by using "evidence" that isn't convincing in the least, anyway.

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Right, which is why it's insulting to me (as a human being) that people are trying to use this bunk to attack Christianity. That's just not the right way to do it - it concedes far too much to the Christians. It presupposes that their assumptions have some validity, and then tries to disprove them by using "evidence" that isn't convincing in the least, anyway.

I don't see it as insulting.

You are right in noting the attempt gives Christians too much of an undeserved intellectual credit. But I preffer to see at elast one side try to use evidence, however mistaken that approach might be.

I do want to make one point perfectly clear: The burden of proof lies always with those making a claim. If the Christians claim that God exists, let them prove it --I don't have to disprove God first.

and that's the first error most poelpe make, taking basless, unsopported claims seriously.

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and that's the first error most poelpe make, taking basless, unsopported claims seriously.

Sorry, I should have made my point more clear, but I was in class...

What is insulting is that people like James Cameron expect me to believe their tripe about this possibly being the tomb of Jesus, when all the facts are against it - and I believe they know that. They're trying to pull one over on us, just like Al Gore generally succeeded in doing (if "us" means "the public") with his convenient lie film.

I would like to see one side use evidence. Atheists like Ayn Rand or Richard Dawkins do just that and, at least in that respect, deserve praise. But this tomb isn't evidence - it's sham evidence. Those who want to foist sham evidence on the public should be ridiculed, regardless of what side they take.

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Let´s back up.

My saying religious people have been shaken into an out-of-hand dismissal, is a half-joke. Only half, because any real evidence will be dismissed just as easily. Therefore using evidence against religion on religious poeple is largely useless. You may sway some, but those who are sincerely commited to their beliefs won't be swayed by evidence or logic, because they've already rejected reason.

I was being serious when I replied that if enough of the Bible were exposed as myth, the religious would still cling to religion. They have nothing else. They will continue to believe the world is a few millennia old, and we were created by God in the sixth day, and Noah did take two of every animal into an ark for 40 days while it rained. Against evidence even they have to acknowledge, such as the Earth being a spheroid rather than a disk, they will faithfully re-interpret their myth to comply with the evidence, they will make up reasons why God said something that wasn't so, they will blame those who wrote God's word, etc etc.

Fightign them with phony "evidence" is ridiculous, but to a public that accepts many other faith-based arguments, not any worse ethically.

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You're right that religious people rely on faith and have abandoned reason (at least as far as religion goes), so it's pointless to try to use rational evidence to change their minds. Of course.

I disagree with you that lying to the public, regardless of the context, can be ethically neutral. I think it's absolutely reprehensible. I'm surprised you seem to think otherwise.

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The news media said they have DNA evidence??? Do they seriously believe the American public is that stupid to believe they have Jesus' DNA stored somewhere to compare it to these bones for a matchup? lol

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I disagree with you that lying to the public, regardless of the context, can be ethically neutral. I think it's absolutely reprehensible. I'm surprised you seem to think otherwise.

No worse ethically than passing faith-based myths as fact. As in Creationism (or ID), or in banning liquor or drugs for religious reasons, stuff like that.

Passing lies and myths as facts is akin to passing counterfeit money. But is it any worse to counterfeit a $100 than it is a $50? I say they're both ethically as bad.

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Do they seriously believe the American public is that stupid to believe they have Jesus' DNA stored somewhere to compare it to these bones for a matchup?
Just ask any Catholic about transubstantiation and communion wafers.

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Or one of the four or five Holy Prepuces running around out there...

-Q

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The news media said they have DNA evidence??? Do they seriously believe the American public is that stupid to believe they have Jesus' DNA stored somewhere to compare it to these bones for a matchup? lol

Well, one of these days Jesus will return to rule the earth. I guess we can compare DNA at that time.

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