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I was triying to argue with someone about the pharmaceutical control of the governement but I realised that I neede more documentation to be credible. I know there is something about the fact the governement control was the cause of the raise of the price but I would have lke to know if there were other suggestion of readings I could do

Thanks

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I have a question for you:

Whyy exactly do you need specific evidence that government controls over an industry raise prices? By saying you need such info to appear credible, it seems you are suggesting without such information, you cannot demonstrate how government controls are invalid. Or that IF government control somehow didn't raise prices, then it *would* be ok to have government control over that industry.

Is your audience convinced of the wrongness of such government control? If so, then you will not need evidence from this PARTICULAR industry (especially when you have the ENTIRE history of government intervention to prove the case if you so desire). However, if your audience is NOT convinced of the wrongness of such government control, then no matter what statistic you provide, you will not sway them from suuch government control. Economic principles flow from political principles which flow from ethical principles. Unless you disuade your audience of approval for government control, your specific attacks will prove fruitless. Again, as history makes quite clear, peoples ability to evade or reject economic realities in favor of ethical considerations is overwhelming. "You have to break a few eggs to make an omlete" will be the ultimate attitude.

In other words, the response you would get is: "Well, that may be true, BUT...." (and then fill in any altruistic bromide you want, all of them seeking to justify sacrifice - justify force).

Put simply, you just have to pull the weeds up by the roots, or they just grow right back, and your efforts are wasted.

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thank you for your advice but in that specific case I am asked to provide numbers in order to be listened. It is those kind of people that won't listened to any argument ethical or political if you can't demonstrate that you have a base of knoledge. I know I should not be wasting my time with those kind of people but here in Quebec (Canada) it seems that there is only those kind of people to deal with.

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thank you for your advice but in that specific case I am asked to provide numbers in order to be listened. It is those kind of people that won't listened to any argument ethical or political if you can't demonstrate that you have a base of knoledge. I know I should not be wasting my time with those kind of people but here in Quebec (Canada) it seems that there is only those kind of people to deal with.

Well, why do you assume that you will be listened to if you do have a booklet of facts and figures pertaining to pharmaceutical laws? Implicitly, you're accepting the premise that the "greatest common good" is how morality is to be defined. You've already given up 80% of the battle, if you accept the validity of the idea that the cheapest system is the best. You ought to work on arguing that only freedom is acceptable, and by the way if freedom leads to lower drug costs, that's nice.

Okay, you have an uphill battle being in Canada and Quebec to boot, but if you ignore the basic principle and only concentrate on little issues such as how government meddling influences price, you might as well not bother arguing with them. You're dealing with people who have limited attention spans and who don't think very seriously about issues, so you don't have the time -- and they don't have the attention span -- for you to present the whole detailed argument about how government meddling raises prices. Bickering over historical details of prices will not persuade such people, but perhaps they can grasp some simple principles.

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youy are right by saying that and I Always try to concenrtate on the basic principle because the rest comes from those, but I sometime get frustretated because I can't even argue with nobody. they you are wrong because it like that or other arguments like that. I know it represents more a weakness to use numbers whitout explaining the principle. but I must admit that in the fire of the conversation saying that there are more trees in the USA this year than there was 200 years ago is somewhat satisfiying. But nontheless I must agree with and not give up the fight for reason.

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thank you for your advice but in that specific case I am asked to provide numbers in order to be listened. It is those kind of people that won't listened to any argument ethical or political if you can't demonstrate that you have a base of knoledge.

Before you waste your time and effort looking stuff up, ask them Betsy's Standard Question For Political Arguments: "If I can show you that [alleged issue under discussion such as "government regulation raises prices"] will you agree with me that we should have no government regulation?"

If he is honest, he will say "No," and maybe bring up many other objections. Then you can say, "There's no need to discuss this then, is there? What REALLY bothers you about ...?" If you keep digging, you'll find his real objection. From experience I know, it is usually a psychological issue on his part such as envy or resentment, or an ethical issue such as the view that selfishness is wrong.

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Anyhow, I actually would appreciate having a better understanding on the details of drug prices in the US vs. Canada. There are a lot of things I can imagine being true -- I just don't have real, credible information. Is there a Canadian government subsidy? Are drug companies compelled to sell at a loss in Canada -- or perhaps sell some things at a loss to enjoy the right to sell others at a profit? Is this a case where the manufacturers just have to take a loss because if they pull out of the Canadian market altogether, they are afraid that they'll incurr some consequences for "abandoning an unprofitable market"? And frankly, if the answer is simply that "In Canada, we are allowed only a 10% profit, but 10% is better than 0%" is perfectly legitimate. Since when is 100% mark-up usurious?

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The fact is that government regulations is wrong for moral reasons, not practical calculations. Even if the government could run businesses better than individuals it would still be a violation of their rights.

Better to start with the essentials - morality. Then you can crunch the numbers. If you want a really AMAZING book about economics, with all the numbers and explanations you need, see Basic Economics, by Thomas Sowell.

He is not an Objectivist, but he IS a genious and this book is one of the best nonfiction books I have read in my life.

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If you want a really AMAZING book about economics, with all the numbers and explanations you need, see Basic Economics, by Thomas Sowell.

I have not read that book, but Sowell is a first-rate thinker and an extremely delightful person. Walter Williams also has a lot of the same qualities as Thomas Sowell. Several months ago the two of them were together, substituting for the host of a talk-radio show, and what a tag team those two made! A real dynamic duo. :D

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