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Elementary, Dear Watson!

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AwakeAndFree

Have you ever read the adventures of Sherlock Holmes?  

38 members have voted

  1. 1. Have you ever read the adventures of Sherlock Holmes?

    • Who's Sherlock Holmes?
      0
    • No, I didn't.
      5
    • Didn't, but mean to.
      5
    • Read some.
      9
    • Read many.
      7
    • Read all.
      7
    • Read all, visited the Sherlock Holmes museum in London, and have the original illustrated edition from The Strand Magazine.
      1
    • I AM Sherlock Holmes.
      3


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I noticed a post where GreedyCapitalist mentioned he had read Sherlock Holmes as a child, and it taught him what reason was.

I have had the exact same experience. I came to admire reason through reading Sherlock Holmes adventures by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. From age 8-9 to age 14 he was my greatest hero. I have all of the stories, and when I went to London a few years back I had to visit 221B Baker Street.

I wonder if that's common in Objectivist circles.

How many of you had read S.H. before becoming Objectivists? How many after? And what do you think of it?

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I too read all the SH books around age 10-11-12. I had never connected the love of Holmes to Objectivism, but it's interesting.

I also read all of the Brigadier Gerrard books by Conan Doyle.....not as rational....but great reads.

Brent

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Yes I read Sherlock Holmes when I was younger also, and loved the stories and the character, long before I discovered Objectivism. He had the unfortunate flaw of opium use when he was bored with no case to work on, but that didn't loom large in the series.

It's interesting that I don't recall Ayn Rand ever mentioning any liking for Holmes, although she loved mysteries. She liked some Mickey Spillane stories and some Donald Hamilton stories, which I read and didn't much like myself--especially the Hamilton, Matt Helm novel I read, The Shadowers. Helm, in that novel at least, seemed like a complete pragmatist who only worked for "our side" because he happened to be born here. I had the impression he'd have worked just as willingly for the other side, if he'd been born beyond the Iron Curtain.

She also mentioned her favorite Agatha Christie book was The Mysterious Mr. Quin (Mr. Harley Quin, as it turns out). I did enjoy those stories. And she recommended one of Mabel Seeley's mysteries, The Crying Sisters, although I prefer another of Seeley's mysteries, The Whispering Cup.

But Sherlock Holmes was always my favorite detective. "Come Watson, the game's afoot!"

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He was such a great combination of a reasoning mind and a scientific/experimental approach.

He could drive for hours to get a peace of evidence, and could then sit for days in his robe, smoking his pipe and deducing from it.

What a great mind!

By the way - his character was based on a real person, Conan Doyle's teacher.

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I read some of the Sherlock Holmes stories when I was growing up, but they didn't have a profound effect on me. The main problem I had with them was that Arthur Conan Doyle often cheated by giving Holmes access to information which the reader did not have. This undermined my appreciation of the stories as mysteries because they didn't play fair.

I much preferred Agatha Christie's "Hercule Poirot" novels. Christie was honest, in that by the time Poirot was ready to give his speech unmasking the killer at the end of the book the reader always had access to the facts required to solve the mystery. Christie's genius was in making the facts available while still coming up with a surprising (yet logical) resolution.

Like Holmes, Poirot was an exponent of the power of the reasoning mind. "Never underestimate the power of the little grey cells, Hastings..."

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Kaight,

It has been a long time since I read either Doyle or Christie but I remember thinking exactly the opposite. I remember being frustrated by Christie cheating and Doyle giving me all the facts! This is very wierd! :)

Perhaps we can agree that the Ellery Queen Mysteries and Columbo (both TV) gave all the facts to the audience before the revelation of the murderer's identity?

Regards,

Brent

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As someone who has read the whole 64 stories, I can tell you that in some of them the reader has all the evidence required to make his own conclusions, and in some, perhaps more, the reader doesn't have it.

But it doesn't matter. The purpose of a mystery is not merely solving riddles, but, like any work of art, the concretization of values. I believe Sherlock Holmes is a better hero than Poirot, and a better representative of reason, in his crime solving abilities as in his personal life.

Poirot was just a petty Frenchmen (Oh, sorry, Belgian :) ).

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Perhaps we can agree that the Ellery Queen Mysteries and Columbo (both TV) gave all the facts to the audience before the revelation of the murderer's identity?

In Columbo there was never any "revelation of the murderer's identity" since we were always given the murderer right up front. The pleasure was in watching Columbo discover the facts and uncover the proof to arrest the murderer, the identity of whom we already knew.

Oh, just one more thing ... :)

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ok, ok,

I stand corrected"

"......the revelation of the chain of causality re how the (existent with volitional consciousness) murderer did the (action) murder.....".....not of the identity of the murderer

gees......one has to be so accurate even when discussing old TV shows on this board! :pimp:

Cheers,

Brent

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ok, ok,

I stand corrected"

"......the revelation of  the chain of causality re how the (existent with volitional consciousness) murderer did the (action) murder.....".....not of the identity of the murderer

I think you better try again. Not only do we know up front who the murdrer is, but we also get to see the (often) clever way that the deed is done.

As I said, the real joy of the show is in following Columbo's mental processes while accumulating the necessary evidence. In almost every case, Columbo, just like us, is really sure early on who the murderer is. His problem is finding out exactly how it was done (we know), and how to trap the murderer with the proper evidence.

gees......one has to be so accurate even when discussing old TV shows on this board! :pimp:

If you mean this as a joke, then fine. (I do not know if the "rolleyes" smiley is meant to be a joke or a criticism.) Personally, I like accuracy as a matter of principle.

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That's not true also. We often see not just who, but how the murder was commited. We just don't know how Columbo is going to solve it. :pimp:

Nice to see another Columbo fan. Especially one so far away.

p.s. Did you ever see the Mrs. Columbo series? Kate Mulgrew, who plays Mrs. Columbo, is the wife we know but did not see on the Columbo show, and Columbo is the husband we know but do not get to see on the Mrs. Columbo show. I think I may have been one of the only six people in the world to ever like that show! :D

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Wow,

I am now wondering why  ever watched  that show?:pimp:

I am now wondering if you ever watched that show. :D

Any comments on Ellery Queen's Whodunit?

I did not like the early series from the 1950s nearly as much as the later one in the 1970s. The 70s Ellery Queen was incredibly stylish (the opening credits alone were worth watching) and Jim Hutton was just marvelous in the role.

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I did not see Mrs. Columbo... What could she possibly be doing in her own series?

I fell in love with Columbo in the last three years, when Israeli Channel 10 started having re-runs of this series. I didn't see all the episodes, but I made it a habit to watch every Saturday.

Other series I enjoyed:

The Gilmore Girls

Star Trek - The Next Generation

Seinfeld

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I did not see Mrs. Columbo... What could she possibly be doing in her own series?

Here is what Kate Columbo said about herself in the first show:

“Once upon a time I studied journalism -- I even worked at it -- I got married --I’m a terrific housewife -- I’m the world’s champion mother -- I worship my husband -- and I still want something left over for me. Mine. Selfish. A few hours a day: all mine. Nobody else’s. Six months ago I woke up and wondered, Whatever happened to me?”

Kate gets what she wants and the newspaper reporter/mother becomes involved with a mystery in each of the few shows of the short-lived series. The overall character of the stories were entirely different than Columbo but interesting in their own right. The main attraction was Kate herself, who was a joy to watch. I followed onto the Voyager arc of the Star Trek series and, I guess, once again, I was one of only about six people who liked her and the show.

Here is a nice pointer about the show: http://www.totallykate.com/mrscolum/mrscolum.htm

Don't get me wrong here, though. This was not a great show, by any means, but, nevertheless, I really enjoyed Kate, both in and out of character.

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i didnt actually read any sherlock holmes till i was a teen. but when i was 8-13 i loved every single detective story/book i could get ahold of. my favorite were the kind that let you reason it out and try to guess the culprit before turning the page. as a child i wanted to be a detective/writer. :P

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I was a huge fan of Holmes as a kid. I also liked Gardner's Perry Mason series, Ellery Queen, and most of Agatha Christy. (Stephen was spot on about the 70's Ellery Queen and Jim Hutton. They were great shows and Hutton was the quintessencial Queen.) Columbo was and is a favorite.

I like the early Spillane novels. The characters are very American and true to the period. I've always wondered whether foreigners coulc appreciate him. The later novels were not as good.

As a child, I loved Basil Rathbone's Sherlock. They were great adventures for a kid, especially when he was going after the Nazis. I know, wrong time period and not Doyle's Holmes, but HEY! I was a kid. :P Has anyone seen the Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes? (They are rerunning that series right now on BBC America.) For me, he is the definitive Holmes. One reason I like the series is because they treat Dr. Watson with respect. The man was a doctor and a veteran. He wasn't up to Holme's level, but he wasn't an idiot. Brett's Holmes is brillianly depicted: the strained patience, the eagerness with which he tackled a problem, his delight in solving it. He really is marvelous to watch.

Doyles inspiration for Holmes was a Scottish pathologist who taught Doyle when he was in medical school. He was a very private man and, to my understanding, he resented it when Doyle let it be known that he was the pattern for Holmes.

Sorry for any errors in spelling and such. My little gray cells are misfiring all over the place tonight!

Edited by oldsalt
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Wow, I wish I could see all these series. Do you think the Jeremy Brett series will still run a two months from now?

I get BBC here in Israel, but not BBC America.

And yes, some people think Holmes treated Watson with disrespect. In fact, it wasn't so. In one story Watson says the only time he saw Holmes lose his temper completely and become violent was when he (Watson) was under attack.

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Oh, just one more thing ... :P

That's what I remember from Columbo. I was young when it originally ran, and I remember him in his trench coat, with his cigar, questioning the suspect in his home or place of business. Then, as he was leaving and the suspect thinks he's home free, Columbo would hesitate, raise his hand in the air, scratch his head, and say: "Oh, there was one more thing . . . " And then unleash a whole new string of probing questions.

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