EC Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Where did you exactly read acupuncture doesn't work? Since you are asserting that it does, the onus is on you to prove it's efficacy by quoting studies that provide evidence of it working in tightly controlled scientific experimentation, not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rearden_Steel Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Here is a study of the creation of double blind needles made just for this purpous. Design of double-blind needles We designed a double-blind (practitioner-patient) non-penetrating needle, the tip of which presses against the skin but cannot penetrate it, and a matched penetrating needle with a specified insertion depth to be used in acupuncture research [17]. The appearance and feel of the penetrating and non-penetrating needles were indistinguishable from one another " Double blind needle test Here is a study published in the British Medical Journal using these double blind needles. "Our trial addressed the three important questions recommended by the House of Lords report on complementary and alternative medicine in 2000. Firstly, true acupuncture did not show any greater therapeutic benefit than a credible control procedure in patients with a clinical diagnosis of knee osteoarthritis. Secondly, acupuncture was safe, with few, minor adverse events. Thirdly, acupuncture provided no additional improvement in pain scores compared with a course of six sessions of physiotherapy led advice and exercise. The small additional benefits from acupuncture were unlikely to be clinically significant, were limited to pain intensity and unpleasantness, were mostly short lived, and could not be attributed to specific acupuncture needling effects" This was a double blind test showing that acupuncture has no significant medical value published in a respectable medical journal. As far as I'm concerned the case is closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenure Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Here's one thing we've robbed the Chinese out of: any grounding for their mysticism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Here's one thing we've robbed the Chinese out of: any grounding for their mysticism. What does that mean...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capitalism Forever Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 Y'alls are still talking about China and no one's even said "Aloha" in response to my post! Well, I'm not impressed! I guess I'll just have to stay a Grecophile. Χαιρε Ελλας! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenure Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 What does that mean...? It means the Chinese had a lot of so-called science and philosophy, grounded in mysticism, not in an attempt to describe reality, but in an attempt to give whatever whim they might come up with a mystical grounding, too profound for those Western dogs with their 'experiments' and 'method'. Ultimately, their way failed and ours succeeded, so in a sense, we robbed them off their grounding - or should I say, their perilous scaffolding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinDW78 Posted August 5, 2008 Report Share Posted August 5, 2008 As far as I'm concerned the case is closed. Finally! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
War Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 That test could have been done by anyone and anyone could've falsified that report, that is not true evidence; but you know what? If you are still in belief that acupuncture does not work, its alright because I am tired of convincing people who are like the missionaries who thinks their dogma is the ultimate belief. So let's leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinDW78 Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 If you are still in belief that acupuncture does not work, its alright because I am tired of convincing people who are like the missionaries who thinks their dogma is the ultimate belief. My spirit guide told me you would say that. Also, since Venus is currently in Taurus, and you are a double Capricorn moon rising, I sense that your chi is out of phase with your yang. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rearden_Steel Posted August 6, 2008 Report Share Posted August 6, 2008 (edited) That test could have been done by anyone and anyone could've falsified that report, that is not true evidence; but you know what? If you are still in belief that acupuncture does not work, its alright because I am tired of convincing people who are like the missionaries who thinks their dogma is the ultimate belief. So let's leave it at that. The researchers were professional doctors and scientist who do medical research in this field. The Researchers were: Nadine E Foster, senior lecturer in therapies (pain management) Elaine Thomas, senior lecturer in biostatistics Panos Barlas, research fellow Jonathan C Hill, arc lecturer in physiotherapy Julie Young, research nurse Elizabeth Mason research physiotherapist Elaine M Hay, professor of community rheumatology I don't think that reputable scientist and researchers would spend their time money and effort on a false report then publish it in one of the most respectable Medical journal in the world and have the finding sent to the House of Lords in parliament. This is a respectable university and research center. Most of the people listed here actually teach medical research. The great thing about science is that it must be reproducible. If you disagree you are more than welcome to read the study and reproduce it. At this point I don't think you are no longer listening to reason. I will leave you with the words of Winston Churchill who said "I'd rather be right then consistent". Confucius says: "The object of the superior man is truth." Edited August 6, 2008 by Rearden_Steel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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