Interesting Global Attitudes Project

[K-Mac]

I just read through this study...

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=256

...and found two items most interesting. First, European countries and Canada have more confidence in Putin than Bush. (Not that I'm a huge fan of Bush or anything, but I certainly feel that he's the lesser of those two evils.) Second, struggling democracies and/or poor countries appear to have a more favorable view of the US than Europeans do. (I suppose that once the struggling democracies/poor countries have risen up and no longer require our assistance, they will hate us too?) It's almost as though all of the countries we have helped in the past, be it financially, militarily or humanitarian, are the ones that hate us the most. Gee, I'm so glad that the taxes I'm burdened with paying are funding other countries hatred for us. I find it all very depressing. Someone give me some insight and make me feel better, please!

[SkyTrooper]

Someone give me some insight and make me feel better, please!

Remember in High School the kid that had the nice car, hot girlfriend, got good grades, and was good at sports? Did everyone else like him? Probably not. That's basically why other countries hate us (although in many cases it is more complicated than mere envy.)

My question for you is: why care what other people think?

[K-Mac]

My question for you is: why care what other people think?

I wouldn't care if each pay period money wasn't being stolen from my paycheck to fund past or present programs in the very countries that hate us. I wouldn't care if my husband, father-in-law, cousin, uncle and grandfathers hadn't fought for them to have the right to exist and prosper as they do now. I understand what you're saying, but how can I help but feel the way I do when when so much is taken from the American people to "help" these ingrates?

I know you're right, though. I've got to let it go if I want to be happy. I can't fight the IRS and the rest of the world.

PS - I like your avatar, badkarma556.

Edited June 29, 2007 by K-Mac

[mrocktor]

That's basically why other countries hate us

I disagree. Most people I know who hate the USA (and there are many here in Brazil) feel that way because of one of the following two things:

1. Imperialism: "The USA deal with the rest of the world as subjects, we don't accept being controlled or used by an outside power."

2. Hypocrisy: "The USA claim to be defenders of freedom and liberty but support tyranny and oppression in other countries."

Now, (1) is blatantly false. The USA is probably the first military superpower ever to not use the threat of physical force as a means to enforce policy among its allies. American "threats" are of the "do X or we withdraw our help/support" type - and this is not dealing by force, but by trade.

(2) on the other hand does have a (pretty significant) grain of truth. America does have a hystory of supporting tyrannic regimes (in the name of "stability") and promoting rights-violating policy in other countries. Here in Brazil, American trade policy is a pretty sore point. America demands Brazil remove trade barriers in the most stringent terms, but the orange juice, cotton and steel industries and the other few where Brazil has a comparative production advantage are heavily "protected" by the US government.

Pure envy certainly is what drives the seething hatred of the Islamist crazies, but there are other causes, and not all of them entirely unfounded.

[K-Mac]

2. Hypocrisy: "The USA claim to be defenders of freedom and liberty but support tyranny and oppression in other countries."

I'll have to agree with you there. What do we do about it, though? Should we just be isolationists, retreat within our own borders, hunker down and mind our own business? I cannot remember where I saw it (maybe a Ron Paul thread) but if we "tend to our own rat killing" maybe we could lead by example instead of by force? Frankly, I'm sick and tired of trying to solve (and pay for) the world's problems, but if we drop out, won't they hate us for that too? Is it not a no-win situation?

[mrocktor]

Is it not a no-win situation?

Hell no! It is a matter of voicing and acting on the right principles. If America said "we believe in individual rights", allied with countries that do so and fought those who don't - this issue would go away. Now when you say "we are going to war to help Iraqis" all you get is all the blame for the Iraqis own errors!

If America upheld the principles it was founded uppon, and acted accordingly, only the nutcases would hate her.

[K-Mac]

Hell no! It is a matter of voicing and acting on the right principles. If America said "we believe in individual rights", allied with countries that do so and fought those who don't - this issue would go away. Now when you say "we are going to war to help Iraqis" all you get is all the blame for the Iraqis own errors!

If America upheld the principles it was founded upon, and acted accordingly, only the nutcases would hate her.

You're probably right. I was thinking, probably erroneously, more along the lines of a spoiled child...they act like they hate their parents and everyone else because everything has always been handed to them and they do not understand the value of what they receive, or anything else for that matter. So when the parents have finally had enough, they take everything away, then the child throws a tantrum and yells, "I hate you!" anyway.

[andre_sanchez]

There are two things that exist. One is the actual hatred (not necessarily intense enough to warrant the word, but the same idea). The other, which is far more prevalent, is the idea that America is somehow "uncivilized", that it is "stupid", "wrong", that "we" are "better" even though, by any and all objectivists standards, "we" are not. Living in Brazil I see this all the time, the idea that, while many americans are good people (democrats and people with liberal ideas, like religious environmentalism and the "let's invite terrorists for a cup of tea!" crap), a fringe group is wrecking the country (republicans and people with conservative ideas, specificaly freedom oriented ideas, not religious ideas). Of course, once democrats get into office, this continues just like before, except the "sane" people move further down the left. It's arrogance, not envy.

[andre_sanchez]

1. Imperialism: "The USA deal with the rest of the world as subjects, we don't accept being controlled or used by an outside power."

Bullshit. Brazilians -love- imperialism. Seriously, if the USA were more imperialist, brazilians would like it much better. Our president is a fucking puppet of Fidel for crying out loud...

Look, most people are not against imperialism. They are against the imperial power, that is, they are against what is being "imperialized" (if the word didn't exist before, it does now). With America, what is being imperialized is freedom, in the individualist, capitalist sense of the word, at least that is how people see it. People do not like freedom here, so they oppose attempts to impose it by force (that is, to defend it against those trying to impose something else). They think americans will prevent the natural evolution of society towards the perfect socialist democracy and impose "fascist" capitalism.

2. Hypocrisy: "The USA claim to be defenders of freedom and liberty but support tyranny and oppression in other countries."

Bullshit. Brazilians don't hate Cuba, which cries against imperialism, despite it having invaded Angola with half a million troops. Brazilians have never, as far as I can tell, hated the Soviet Union, which also had a rethoric of defending freedom and liberty and all that, and which, UNLIKE THE USA(!), actively interfered in brazilian domestic policy through ARMED INSURGENT GROUPS. The cry of hypocrisy is an excuse, and usualy uses sloppy arguments with doubtfull or misunderstood facts.

[Seanjos]

Remember in High School the kid that had the nice car, hot girlfriend, got good grades, and was good at sports? Did everyone else like him? Probably not. That's basically why other countries hate us (although in many cases it is more complicated than mere envy.)

No that's not it, islamic extremists (including the non-terrorists) don't want cars or skyscrapers, they only want to take ours away. Have a listen to Dr Brook's Lecture.

Talking to people here (UK), most don't care either way, and for the ones that do it seems to be only a case of dislike. As for reasons why, it seems to just come down to personalities.

My sister is in 2nd year sociology, recently in class discussions she has raised points about free market economy.

One student said Capitalism isn't really even a proper system though, it's just an idea. Her teacher on a different occasion said "I have noticed your views are becoming more and more something like capitalism" and in a joking manner continued with: "now we can't have that can we"? Having explained to her the concept of "evasion" some weeks earlier this was the first time she'd witnessed it and found it quite hilarious.

These things are equated with the USA here. Ayn Rand was right these probem really do start in the classroom. At least she has me though, I feel sorry for the other kids.

Edited April 29, 2008 by Seanjos

[Greebo]

My sister is in 2nd year sociology, recently in class discussions she has raised points about free market economy.

One student said Capitalism isn't really even a proper system though, it's just an idea. Her teacher on a different occasion said "I have noticed your views are becoming more and more something like capitalism" and in a joking manner continued with: "now we can't have that can we"? Having explained to her the concept of "evasion" some weeks earlier this was the first time she'd witnessed it and found it quite hilarious.

Kudos to your sister for standing up for reason. You're absolutely right that the academic institutions are chiefly populated by pseudo-intellectuals. The only hope we have as rational minds of influencing society is to get people in classes questioning what they are told. It only takes one student in a class to stand up to and challenge the irrationality of an instructor to generate healthy skepticism to make *some* of the students question the institution. (Younger, of course, is better - children LOVE to learn) At that age, rebellion against the institution is practically a norm, so wouldn't it be ironic if we could cause a Rational Rebellion? -- Hey, that'd make a good bumper sticker: "Rebel To Rationalism"