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dealing with the criminally insane

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The Wrath

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Perhaps one could speculate that he was insane, or mentally ill, or that perhaps he had a mind-body dichotomy, or that he was an idiot, but nevertheless here are a couple of YouTube videos of Richard Feynman presenting his views on a couple of topics, and although he doesn't offer any view on mental illness, or insanity, or mind-body dichotomies, or even idiocy, he has some relevant and interesting comments on "Why?" questions. (There's no clear evidence presented on whether or not he was a Scientologist, or whether or not he associated with or knew John Travolta or Tom Cruise. It may be noted that he did not stoop to denigrating the questioner. An opportunity missed.)

Richard Feynman on "Social Sciences"

Also, here is an interview of another intellectual which others here might find interesting—although one perhaps should consider it to be a significant negative reflection on this intellectual's views that the interview was given in this particular venue.

Edited by Trebor
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Perhaps one could speculate that he was insane, or mentally ill, or that perhaps he had a mind-body dichotomy, or that he was an idiot, but nevertheless here are a couple of YouTube videos of Richard Feynman presenting his views on a couple of topics, and although he doesn't offer any view on mental illness, or insanity, or mind-body dichotomies, or even idiocy, he has some relevant and interesting comments on "Why?" questions.

While it is true that eventually you have to say of "Why?" questions that it is just the way it is (law of identity), I don't see what relevance this has to the current thread. Of course one has to ask why is it a mental illness, but the answers that some of us have given is that these problems negatively effect the operations of the mind. One of my relatives recently had a stroke -- and most of us know that a stroke is a decrease in blood flow to the brain due to some blockage -- however, it also effected his mental capacity; primarily, he wasn't able to speak clearly or to concentrate on more than one thing at a time (he couldn't multi-task). And he related the frustration he had when he had something on his mind but he couldn't get it out of his mouth, due to the area the stroke occurred in. Fortunately, he has recovered, because the blockage was removed in time not to lead to serious brain malfunctions; but it obviously effected his mind while it was going on. He couldn't do things that he was able to take for granted before the stroke -- such as talk fluently. So, I consider it to be ridiculous to say it effected his brain but not his mind -- because it effected both. And the same is true for mental illnesses, many of which doctors and researchers are narrowing down to specific brain malfunctions.

Look, I'm not calling you stupid; and me saying you have a mind / body dichotomy means that you have made an intellectual mistake somewhere along the lines and you need to correct it. It was not meant as a statement of denigration. When things happen to the brain that disrupt its natural functioning it also disrupts the thinking process. Because there is no mind / body dichotomy. We are each one entity, and disruptions to health effect our whole system, and sometimes someone will have a mental problem brought about by a brain disfunction -- and medication definitely helps.

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In his most recent podcast, Dr. Peikoff has some interesting things to say about perfectly valid idioms in a language to convey something, such as "You are an idiot!". While I agree with him that idioms are useful, there have been too many times when I have observed someone being rationalistic with regard to some issues to come right and say that I think someone is an idiot as opposed to saying they have accepted some premise or other that maybe they shouldn't have accepted; such as the current discussion as to whether or not there are mental illnesses. Given my context of knowledge, I think it is clear that brain malfunctions can lead to cognitive dissonance -- i.e. a mental illness -- and I don't understand why someone would deny that. However, I haven't seen the evidence that Trebor is just being an idiot and denying the self-evident, because if he hasn't had such experiences himself or in relation to others, then it is just not going to be clear to him. It's very clear to me that there are mental illnesses, and it is very clear that medication and psychotherapy can help;so, to me, it is uncontroversial. In other words, I don't know Dr. Szasz' motivation of denying mental illnesses, and I can see where someone might fall for his argument; and falling for an argument per se does not make someone an idiot in and of itself. And there have definitely times in the past when I have to look at myself and say, "You idiot!" but mostly in retrospect, as I didn't think something through clearly enough.

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I'll try to make a brief point now, and perhaps say more later.

The issue -- Dr. Szasz's argument against there being mental illnesses excepting as metaphorical illnesses -- is not one of denying any facts, but is one of denying, or disputing, or challenging, if you like, certain explanations.

I cannot present Dr. Szasz arguments better than he, nor could I hope to reduce them down to a few lines posted to a forum that would convince anyone of anything. Nor would I wouldn't accept the challenge to do so.

If anyone thinks Dr. Szasz might have something worthwhile to say, then they can investigate for themselves.

I certainly do not deny that brain diseases or injuries can and do have severe consequences re mental functions. That's not to say, however, that all mental disfunction is due to diseases or injuries to the brain. Man's rational faculty makes possible both rationality and irrationality, great good and great evil that would otherwise not be possible. There is perhaps nothing more important than understanding man's rational faculty, not as some ghost in the machine, but as an attribute of an integrated being.

Edited by Trebor
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In his most recent podcast, Dr. Peikoff has some interesting things to say about perfectly valid idioms in a language to convey something, such as "You are an idiot!". While I agree with him that idioms are useful, there have been too many times when I have observed someone being rationalistic with regard to some issues to come right and say that I think someone is an idiot as opposed to saying they have accepted some premise or other that maybe they shouldn't have accepted; such as the current discussion as to whether or not there are mental illnesses. Given my context of knowledge, I think it is clear that brain malfunctions can lead to cognitive dissonance -- i.e. a mental illness -- and I don't understand why someone would deny that. However, I haven't seen the evidence that Trebor is just being an idiot and denying the self-evident, because if he hasn't had such experiences himself or in relation to others, then it is just not going to be clear to him. It's very clear to me that there are mental illnesses, and it is very clear that medication and psychotherapy can help;so, to me, it is uncontroversial. In other words, I don't know Dr. Szasz' motivation of denying mental illnesses, and I can see where someone might fall for his argument; and falling for an argument per se does not make someone an idiot in and of itself. And there have definitely times in the past when I have to look at myself and say, "You idiot!" but mostly in retrospect, as I didn't think something through clearly enough.

I certainly do not think that you are an idiot either.

I did not realize that you yourself have a mental illness. If you don't mind saying, what is your mental illness, and what medication do you take for it? In what ways has your medication helped you with your cognitive dissonance?

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I did not realize that you yourself have a mental illness. If you don't mind saying, what is your mental illness, and what medication do you take for it? In what ways has your medication helped you with your cognitive dissonance?

I wasn't actually trying to imply that, but I have certainly had my share of psychological problems stemming from the death of my best friend and due to being harassed in 2005 for a whole summer. I have also observed others who have had similar and more serious problems. I'm not going to go into the details but it is clear from observing myself and observing others that cognition is interrupted by such things as flash-backs and repressions. A repression means that one has an isolated memory that one does not have direct access to, which can interrupt the smooth flow of memory retrieval when it is necessary. I have also been triggered on a trauma of my best friend's death and that is disruptive because it seemed to be occurring right now, instead of being a memory. I went into shock when he died, and never fully processed that event until about twelve years later. And, yes, I am on medication, which is very helpful; and I am going through psychotherapy. If psychological problems and more serious conditions didn't interrupt cognition they wouldn't be a problem. I have known people with schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, and the medication makes a world of difference. Fortunately, going through a good treatment plan and consulting with professionals and following through with a personal self-training regiment can really help. Primarily that means going by reason instead of emotions, and thinking things through more effectively.

I think it is important to realize that these are medical problems and not something to be ashamed of, but I don't want to go into my medical history on a public board.

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I wasn't actually trying to imply that, but ...snip...

Thank you. I appreciate your thoughtful comments as well as the limits which you understandably place on discussing one's medical history on a public board.

For what it's worth, I'm sorry for the loss of your friend. I am also sorry for your experience being harassed. I know that such experiences have serious consequences mentally, and that they require attention and care, that they can be very difficult to deal with. I'm glad that you're finding medication and psychotherapy to be helpful. I certainly would not deny anyone the right to pursue what they think to be and find to be helpful.

I've spent a bit of time trying to say some other things, but I'm going in circles and changing my mind, so obviously I don't have any ideas organized. I'll say more if and when I think I have something worthwhile to add.

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