9 replies to this topic

[ih8au]

I joined this forum to get some insight on dating an objectivist. After meeting this man and forming our friendship, ideas, etc. I discover his values and virtues to be an objectivist. I find it very interesting to learn and never shy away from discovering new things. I enjoy learning  from his values on objectivism, and clearly have a long way to go before I gain a vast knowledge of it. We do get along great and have the best time together, however philosophy gets to be a bit overwhelming for myself.  My question is how do I date an objectivist when I am not? I welcome the challange with each question that is fired at me and answer truthfully. The "drilling" does get tiresome at times and sometimes I may not have an answer for things. I'm okay with it, he is not. We do not agree on all aspects of subject matter. We will agree to disagree, but he continues to right "his" right and trys to presude me to his beliefs. So if we disagree, why can't we agree that we view them differently and move on?  Any ideas or tips on dating the objectivist? Dating someone different is not going to happen, we like eachother too much. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and respond.

[JASKN]

If you like each other so much, having patience over philosophic differences should be easier than just between two friends, or two people who are just dating and aren't very sure of their feelings yet. In my opinion, the "like each other so much" is the most important part. It's mostly subconscious and means that in a way you've already evaluated each other in a positive light -- even if there are otherwise disagreements when discussing philosophy explicitly. Yes, it's true that philosophy is at the base of all thought and action. So, a disagreement over, say, whether someone should spend his life helping the poor versus helping himself, ie. altruism versus egoism, would be a major problem. However, if he really lives by Objectivist principles and still has strong feelings for you, it is likely that your character has those principles and the values that match. Even if you haven't given as much thought to the nitty gritty reasons behind those principles, you may still be more or less living by them -- hence, he is attracted to you.

If you really are open to new ideas, and he already likes you, he should consider himself lucky. A question you might ask him is, "Have you always held these Objectivist principles for yourself?" It's likely he had a period, maybe a long period, where he had to learn them and start using them. I know I did -- I started out Christian. It would be unfair for me to meet a new friend and expect her to already know about and use these principles which took so long for me to adopt. But, I may still get along with the person, for good reasons. It would then be up to me to be patient with the new friend while she "caught up," or just to be OK with her remaining the same, if she wasn't so interested in philosophy. In your case, if philosophy is a big interest of your boyfriend's, it may be worth it for you to try to better learn the "deepness" of the principles he talks to you about.

Edited by JASKN, 28 September 2011 - 11:33 AM.

[WilliamColton]

I wish I could offer help, but I'm the type that bungles every relationship I'm in (I'm sort of an expert on saying the wrong thing every time). Last relationship was with a Catholic. Let's just say we had our 'differences'.

But if the love is there, don't fret it. You'll either feel compelled to learn about Objectivism yourself (which you've already shown to be the case), and/or he'll be compelled to help you to understand (also seems to be the case). Sounds like a good affair to me.

[ropoctl2]

ih8au, on 28 September 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

The "drilling" does get tiresome at times and sometimes I may not have an answer for things. ... but he continues to right "his" right and trys to presude me to his beliefs.

He needs to learn to become a more respectful communicator.  Dale Carnegie's famous book is a good start.

Edited by ropoctl2, 28 September 2011 - 12:43 PM.

[bluecherry]

Perhaps you could try deciding on a later date/time upon which you can continue a discussion when it has begun to drain on one or both of you going over a topic or if you have other things that need to get done. This would also allow you both some time to think things over a bit more before trying to go forward rather than feeling like you have to make a decision before you're confidant you have enough information and examination to be sure of things. Hopefully this will let you have your discussions while you are feeling clearheaded enough to do so and not clouded by frustration, fatigue, or panic while also letting your mate know that you do not intend to simply brush off something he thinks is important.

[Ninth Doctor]

ih8au, on 28 September 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

Any ideas or tips on dating the objectivist?

Here's a few funny lines you can use on him:

http://www.joketribe...up%20Lines.html

[WilliamColton]

Ninth Doctor, on 28 September 2011 - 06:54 PM, said:

Here's a few funny lines you can use on him:

http://www.joketribe...up%20Lines.html

Those are great.

PS: Is your name a Dr. Who reference?

[Greebo]

ih8au, on 28 September 2011 - 10:53 AM, said:

I joined this forum to get some insight on dating an objectivist. After meeting this man and forming our friendship, ideas, etc. I discover his values and virtues to be an objectivist. I find it very interesting to learn and never shy away from discovering new things. I enjoy learning  from his values on objectivism, and clearly have a long way to go before I gain a vast knowledge of it. We do get along great and have the best time together, however philosophy gets to be a bit overwhelming for myself.  My question is how do I date an objectivist when I am not? I welcome the challange with each question that is fired at me and answer truthfully. The "drilling" does get tiresome at times and sometimes I may not have an answer for things. I'm okay with it, he is not. We do not agree on all aspects of subject matter. We will agree to disagree, but he continues to right "his" right and trys to presude me to his beliefs. So if we disagree, why can't we agree that we view them differently and move on?  Any ideas or tips on dating the objectivist? Dating someone different is not going to happen, we like eachother too much. Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this and respond.

I'm an Objectivist and my wife is not.  We don't agree on every minor detail - but on the major principles that matter in our relationship, we agree.

I don't think your issue is that he's an Objectivist - per se.  There's plenty of people of other philosophies that feel this need to push those closest to them to be like minded with them - and at one time in my life, I was one of those, well, frankly, jerks.  Fortunately for me, my wife is able to let me know when I'm crossing the line - she's a strong woman who can stand up to me when I get a little overly intense.

BTW I'm not saying HE'S a jerk - just that he's got the potential to be enough of one if he's not careful that it will ultimately push you away.

He has to learn to respect your boundaries - and to allow you to reach your own conclusions in your own time.  O'ism demands that we all check our own premises, not that we force others to do so.

Have you read Atlas Shrugged?  If you have, then refer him to how both Dagny dealt with Hank when Hank expressed his own self-loathing after their first night together, and equally how John Galt never tried to push his way of thinking on Dagny.  With Dagny and Hank, she never told him why he was wrong, she just told him where SHE stood in the affair, and with John and Dagny, he stated his positions on matters but left her the freedom to choose for herself, and in neither case did Hank's failure to recognize his errors of reasoning or Dagny's failure to recognize hers change the regard that the other held for them each in turn.

Hope that makes sense.

[Avila]

"But if the love is there, don't fret it. You'll either feel compelled to learn about Objectivism yourself (which you've already shown to be the case), and/or he'll be compelled to help you to understand (also seems to be the case). Sounds like a good affair to me."

I have to disagree with William here: love isn't enough sometimes. It might be quite grating to have someone trying to "teach" you (you're not his student), and if it's annoying at times while you are in the newness of the relationship, I can guarantee it will not get more bearable as the relationship matures. You need to be treated as an equal, not as someone he likes who unfortunately has "defective" or "unformed" views that he is going to fix.

Much depends upon him. If he has the sense to back off and leave you to your own worldview, whatever that might be, then this ought not to be a problem. If he continues as you describe, then your prospects aren't very good.

I've been happily married for 25 years. Neither of us is an Objectivist, but we have other areas where we are both passionate and are in agreement. It IS important.

Edited by Avila, 29 September 2011 - 08:31 PM.

[durentu]

I noticed this about my behavior long ago. I know I'm a rather intense person and I probably wont change. But in my relationships I tell them exactly this. "I'm an intense person so if you have a headache from talking/thinking or need a break or whatever, then say so. I'm no a mind reader, so you have to let me know. The conversations can wait"

I didn't want to be a bully. That if my gf is having difficulty and takes a break,  and then I come after her saying "your premises is incorrect because....." That's just simple coercion that isn't part of my belief system.

Also, The priorities have to be kept in check. Which is more important? The debates or the relationship? If the debates win over the relationship every time, then guess what. The relationship is going to tap out. It's the actual living of the values and virtues that makes the relationship work. No so much as in the choosing and debating of them.

The debates are great, but makes for a poor hugging partner. Need a human for that.  

Edited by durentu, 09 February 2012 - 08:38 AM.