Nullifidian

Well, actually, it is you who is knocking on his door. This is a forum dedicated to the philosophy of Objectivism, and if citing its originator, Ayn Rand, makes you "feel" that you are dealing with a fundamentalist religion, then please also feel free to stop knocking on our door. You all can rest assured I will knock no more. I found my own objective reality through the time honored system of science and its methods of obtaining truth. I did not just read a few books and think, gee this is a great way live my life. I came here thinking I would find people who respected science, logic, and the rational mind that comes from having an objective reality. All I have found is bigotry, prejudice, and closed minds and this is all from just one forum thread. The elitist attitude I've received from this board is frightning and THAT is why I am leaving never to return. I am not mad or angry just very very disappointed and sad that I did not find a group of people who have a background in science and the rationality that it can bring a person. goodbye, and have fun flaming me....

If you've ever worked in a drug rehab your opinions may differ. Getting up close with the afflicted can change your perspective too. I could go into the many different ways a person can become addicted but the one that contradicts your "an attempt to obliterate one's consciousness" is the biological predisposition towards certain drugs. Studies have shown attention deficit people having a strong tendancy towrds stimulants. There are lots of other genetic studies showing how people's brain chemistry leads them towards drugs. Drug addiction is just a plain sickness that sad to say usually gets treated with more drugs.

So what is the difference between the biological level and the objective reality level? Regardless, you didn’t answer my question. Yes? I’m sorry but you are just plain wrong. Evolution did not program people to enjoy ecstasy or cocaine. Rather evolution led to the development of a pleasure pain mechanism, which we can affect with said drugs. Rationality is not only what prevents us from abusing these drugs - it was what made the creation of these drugs possible in the first place. Notice how in the case of ecstasy and cocaine reason is being subverted to pleasure – aka to the task of creating or intensifying a sensation. The point remains that sensations are not a guide to life – they are in fact indicators - and using your rationality to make a short cut is undermining their function. It is more or less like cheating on a test… a good grade is an indicator of your progress and knowledge, if you cheat on the test then you still get an A, but that grade is merely a false indicator of your understanding of the material. Just like someone who is high on drugs is experiencing a false indicator that they are in harmony with reality. They still had to think to cheat on the test, but this thinking is misguided and ergo fundamentally irrational (fundamentally anti-life). I never said a thing about ecstasy and cocaine. You are simply taking my words and doing the twist. If you actually look at what I have posted here you would see that I'm observing DRUGS from a 50,000 foot view and giving nothing but facts. If you want to have a rational discussion I'm all for it but first YOU must show some forum edicate. If you cannot acknowledge the biological facts I've posted then go back to school. The pleasure pain centers of the brain came way before any man made drug was produced, so put away your magnifying glass on the subject and try to look at things from distance. While I'm at it I'd like to inform you that religion is in a lot of ways a drug. So spouting off links and refering me to passages of Rand only makes me feel you are no different than a fundie knocking on my door.

Yes, you're correct. Thank you for stating such to those who take things a little to literally. I was trying to bring a little humour into the conversation.

I can't live without my allergy med's, and lets not forget COFFEE!! In fact I bet the remaining 56% of people intake caffine on a regular basis either through carbonated beverages or CHOCOLATE! (my personal fave). Altering one's consiousness is so common among people they don't even realize it's happening. Now if we could only ban Reality TV as a drug

I stand corrected, yes cigs would be uno. Drink would be 2nd. "No possible reaasonable doubt what you meant"??? It seems you're trying to bring me into the arguement of/for another poster. I'm staying out of that one please, thank you. CONTEXT-DROP??? Wow, yes all people are on drugs in one form or another. It doesn't matter wether alcohol is occasional or not. One drink can kill the rational mind. I make no assertions whatsoever about Rand's advocacys. That again was another poster not me. I'll make sure to include your whole posting next time. I was just trying to condense my reply and obviously that is frowned upon here or at least by you. So please pardon my CONTEXT DROPPING. Thank you!

I'm sorry to correct you but cigarettes and alcohol ARE drugs. Both substances contain chemicals that pass the blood brain barrier and alter our brain chemistry. Pardon me... On 2nd thought I think you are comparing them to "taking drugs" like as in illegal drugs. Reguardless social drinking is the leading cause of drug induced deaths in our society.

From a biological perspective there is very little difference between us and them. On a objective reality level we are totally different. Yes, evolution has programmed our brain chemistry to react to a number of outside stimuli once it is entered into our blood stream. We have specific centers of the brain that react to specific drugs found in nature. These drugs mimic our natural brain chemistry, simple biology. It is our rationality that prevents us from abusing these drugs. I have a certain prejudice towards alchohol. I've lost more people to this drug than any other drug. Yet it is a social norm to indulge and over indulge in this drug. It is one of the leaders in grinding a persons rational thinking process into the ground. With the holiday season coming up you'll probably be able to see normal people throw rationality right out the window and over indulge in food and drink. Then get behind a wheel of a car. This thought alone makes me cringe....

People will always seek out and indulge in drugs of all kinds. It's natural and totally biological in nature. As someone stated earlier its all "context". If we were talking about a hammer well it can be used as a screw driver, it can also be used in self defense , or murder. But its purpose is to drive in a nail. I hate anologies, why did I just write one....

Just like any mind altering substance there is use and abuse. Determining the difference is not an easy thing to do. It is my understanding that almost all mammals will seek out substances which will alter their brain chemistry (rotting fruit is a favorite for elephants and monkeys for a alcohol buzz). So that would make drug use/abuse a typical biological thing to do among us hominids. To enact laws to protect us from ourselves creates more problems than the drug useage. Though not a substance, TV and religion come to mind as being the most abused form for altering brain chemistry. But thats just a personal opinion...