Sluggy Bear
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Posts posted by Sluggy Bear
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And which category does this discussion practical, applied and even rational violence fall under in the philosophy? Metaphysics? Epistemology? Ethics? Which? Does it touch on all of them? Where does it fall in the hierarchical order of the philosophy?
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Obviously, the use of force is celebrated. That violence can be used to free men is much celebrated around the world and in the works of Ayn Rand.
The use of force is always destructive, yes. That's the point in using force as opposed to, say, persuasion. And, yes, it should be handled with extreme caution and care and it is always a last resort.
That being said, shouldn't we learn more about it so that it can be handled more carefully and in a proper context so that its use can be effectively minimized and so that the results of having used it produces only the desired effect?
That being said, I will ask again... Which category does this discussion fall under in the philosophy? Metaphysics? Epistemology? Ethics? Which? Does it touch on all of them? Where does it fall in the hierarchical order and in the contexts which I mentioned, is violence proper and even... practical?
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True in that sense. But they do in fact initiate force. They cannot force one to act against his own will, but that does not take away from the fact that they will try to do so and that people subject to that force will in fact act against their own best interest.
Also, in the case of the Income Tax, which is a fraud, people are being forced to pay it because they believe the tax is legitimate, which it is in fact not. Their behavior is in fact influenced through the act of fraud -- which is a type of force.
Force and fraud.
Now, how 'bout those questions?
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If violence is not used to achieve a goal -- then what is it used for?
If I am using violence on someone or something -- I am obviously forcing them or it to do what I want them it to do.
You don't pay "Federal Taxes". The IRS is not a government agency and the taxes you pay to the IRS do not go to the Federal Government. Check your premises.
Yes, they do force you to pay the taxes. They are in fact the initiators of force on you.
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Read the title of my post and also the post again. I have made reference to specific pages in the book that are pointing to this particular discussion. You can open up your copy and see the entire discussion. I am asking very specific questions and I am not dropping context.
Which category does this discussion fall under in the philosophy? Metaphysics? Epistemology? Ethics? Which? Does it touch on all of them? Where does it fall in the hierarchical order?
And in the contexts which I mentioned, is violence proper and even... practical?
The title of the post is: "That Violence Is Not Practical" (that statement is also taken from those specific pages of the book).
I say that violence is, in a proper context, is perfectly practical. That is my argument.
I think that the subject of violence is not discussed completely enough in the book and I wish to discuss it further here.
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"All they that take the sword shall perish with the sword." -- Ayn Rand "Atlas Shrugged" pp. 757-758
I am not sure which philosophical category this topic should be worked under, so I am posting it here to ask that question and more...
Since I was a child, interested in the martial arts and, later, as an adult, killing and the combat sciences and a teacher and practitioner of violence, I had always wanted to understand the nature and the philosophy of human violence. I think that I have achieved that understanding and would like to learn and to write more about it and to place it in its proper hierarchical order within the philosophy.
I want to open up this discussion to hear your thinking on the matter...
"The necessary consequence of man’s right to life is his right to self-defense. In a civilized society, force may be used only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use. All the reasons which make the initiation of physical force an evil, make the retaliatory use of physical force a moral imperative.
If some “pacifist” society renounced the retaliatory use of force, it would be left helplessly at the mercy of the first thug who decided to be immoral. Such a society would achieve the opposite of its intention: instead of abolishing evil, it would encourage and reward it." -- Ayn Rand
Upon reading this statement, and if one is convinced that self-defense is indeed the moral imperative Rand proves that it is, as I am, then it logically follows that violence is needed in the act of self-defense; though not in every case or incident of course, as one could defend his property, for example, simply by placing a lock on the door, but in some cases during which a thug presents a gun and demands, "your money or your life", or in the case of a community defending itself from a deadly virus or a rat infestation. In these contexts, is violence then proper and even... practical?
I say it is.
What are your thoughts on the subject?
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Walking/Hiking is great. Been doing it for twenty-five years. One of my favorite things to do. Fast walking for therapy and fitness and slow walking with friends and my dogs, who can't keep up with my fast walking. Funny, how my dogs can outrun me with zero effort, but they can't walk with me without becoming fatigued and dragging behind after only a couple of miles.
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Welcome to the forum.
Objectivism really would frown on all that too.
Yea, that too. What brought you to this forum?
I am not an Objectivist. I don't like that word and I don't apply it to myself.
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Gotta have my physical fitness and my can of whoop-ass at all times. I am a man of thinking and action. Fat/weak-bodies can't make the cut. I go where no fat-boy can follow.
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I can live up to reason, purpose, self-esteem and adopt the principles within the philosophy; but I've never felt for a moment like I could live up to the characters in Rand's books. I'm certainly no mathematician, industrialist, tycoon or executive in the sense that Rand demonstrated and I don't hope or try to be. I've set a different course for my life that indeed makes me happy and I'll stick to it.
Sometimes I get caught in the funk, too. There are many variables that cause and cure this phenomena. Sometimes I am just working too hard and I am worn out and need a rest. Sometimes I am in the process of studying a new topic or venture and I am saturated. Sometimes I'm just plain confused and don't know what to do. Growth is sometimes contraction and sometimes expansion. I try to accept both contraction and expansion; and if I don't -- I get caught in the funk. Sometimes the best thing to do is simply observe and allow myself to feel and to think and take notice of those negative thoughts and feelings; sometimes just identifying with the fact that I am having them is enough to make them dissipate.
I don't know anything about art. I know that a beautiful woman is a work of art and and end in herself. That can sometimes turn me back on and get me going again. ;-)
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Hi, I’m Sluggy Bear.
I’m forty-six years of age and I first read Ayn Rand’s, “Atlas Shrugged” back in the 1990s, at the age of thirty-one. I was hooked instantly. It was, by far and away, the single most powerful piece of reading material I have ever read in my life up to that time and I haven’t found anything that has come close to it since. Happily, a great many things in that book resonate with me and I am so glad that I found it and have adapted so much of that philosophy into my own life. It works. And I like things that work. I carry a copy of the book around with me and write notations in it and highlight the best parts for reading over and over again; incredibly inspiring. It is my favorite book. I also love Rose Wilder Lane’s, “The Discovery of Freedom”.
I came to this forum to meet and converse with some like-minded individuals.
I love: philosophy; the great outdoors; survivalism; guns; girls; guitars and guitar picking; music theory; travel; combat science; reading (Sometimes. Other times it just gives me a headache and makes me tired and confused); writing songs and just plain writing in general and a myriad of other things. It’s a pretty good-sized world out there and a lot of things are going on in it – there’s a lot to love.
My sense of life is like a wild, free, abundantly healthy and fit tan-skinned woman with long, wavy black hair and black eyes. I love to work and to make lots of money (though I never really have made lots of money – it doesn’t take away from the fact that I’d really like to). I’m hot tempered, mean and violent at times, but that’s just for fun. I’m an excellent Overseer/Manager, so give me a call if you have a crew that needs to be run with extreme efficiency. I hate nonsense unless it’s being done on-purpose for the sake of fun and games and only if it is the right time and place for it. I hate most people in general and would like to spit on them, kick them in the ass and send them on their way; unfortunately, society does not deem that acceptable behavior however and I am forced to suffer some fools and some mess every now and again. I like to keep fit so that I can easily open up a can of whoop-ass at a moment’s notice whenever I bloody well feel like it. I’m a little raunchy and abrasive at times, yes, but that’s OK, ‘cos so are you; so long as we get the job done – is all that counts. I like to grow things. I love cayenne pepper and spicy, hot, hot, hot foods. I love Botanical Materia Medica; a fascinating subject and another one of those things that actually works. I am a loner at times. I like to think and to contemplate.
Well, I think that’s enough for now. Gotta run. Nice to meet all of you!
Sincerely,
Sluggy Bear
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I don't have any faith in music at all. I just like to kick arse and take-no-prisoners in the process.
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Be your own Galt's Gulch. That's what I do. Find it, create it, make it happen.
Rand's idea of having a place and resources to fall back on when the inevitable crash occurs isn't far-fetched. Find that place and make it your own.
The masses are useless nothings. Always have been, always will be. Leave them to their useless nothingness. You'd be doing them a favor, after all, they keep telling me how happy they are in their laziness and ignorance. Let them have at it.
Going your own way is always a lonely affair. But you get used to it.
Cheers.
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I read Ayn Rand first when I was 31 (I am now 46). I was only about halfway through the book when I realized it was the philosophy for me.
As years rolled by however, I got into other things and got soft on the philosophy and soft on myself. I realize now that was a no-no and an error on my part. Anyway, I'm back and I am here to stay.
There are so many things that I agree with completely about Rand's philosophy (I don't like calling it, "Objectivism" -- so I don't). And there are so many things that I emphatically disagree with about her philosophy. I take what I can use from it and integrate it into my own life and leave the rest.
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This song always picks me up:
I think music is hard because so much of it is just people whining and wallowing is self pity. Everyone seems to thing that Depression is "Artistic", but to me it's just boring. Lyrics usually ruin songs for me because of the content, I have a hard time ignoring them.
Even though its somewhat sarcastic, this song has such confidence that I can't help but love it:
I'd really love to find some good, up tempo, lyric-less music - like Scott Joplin, but a bit more modern, and with a few more 'voices'.
I hear that. I was seven when I heard, Johnny Cash for the first time. It was his famous 1969 live recording of "Folsom Prison Blues". I flipped. The driving, pounding, powerful rhythm reminded me of a train barreling down the track and having its way with anything that got in the way. Because of that song, I wanted to be a locomotive engineer or a sledgehammer when I grew up!!!!!!!!
But the lyrics... ugh!!!!!!!!
Why do music lyrics always have to be so bloody depressing?
They don't. I pick guitar and I love to play jazz/blues/rock progressions. If I like the progression but don't like the lyrics, I just change them to say what I want.
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Here's a funny picture that says it all about the Wall Street Protestor crowd: http://i673.photobuc...selvesProud.jpg
Peter Schiff has some great items.
"That Violence Is Not Practical."
in Questions about Objectivism
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What other methods would be practical in that context?