Jon Southall

Not whining Harrison. Where do you live? Can you name one viable plot of unowned land you could use to produce value from near to you? If you can't identify this how far would you have to relocate until you find this? At what cost? Didn't Rand state "reason is man's only absolute"? Seems like a wise statement. Feel free to think in absolutes, but wisdom is seldom found at the extremes but in the point of balance, harking back to Aristotle.

Neither. I am in favour of property rights and in establishing ownership. My criticism is that under objectivism the basis for establishing ownership of natural resources (homesteading) is arbitrary and seems to contradict other aspects of objectivism (being free to direct your thoughts and productive effort to create value self interestedly in order to live).

Thinking is not sufficient to live by, as is clear under Rand's arguments. You must be able to produce value and utilise it as well. My thought experiment is what happens if this second step (thought into value creation) is severely impeded by lack of access to resources due to existing social conventions. Specifically when those conventions force our character to trade. It would then be a matter of chance whether terms favourable to our character's self interest exists or not. If its a lesser of two evils situation (an immoral choice if I've understood Objectivist morality correctl

That's the issue. Why should you get to use that space over someone else? Under objectivism you have the right to build yourself a house, or perhaps a statue. I will need to place both somewhere specifically. If someone said they want to use that space, what is an objectivists argument for refusing it? What if what someone else wants is for that space not to be used and they oppose you building a house there to start with, or choosing to locate your statue where you have done. Forget the original sin point about monopoly, that comment missed the point and its not my argument. I

Read the word "viable" and it makes sense. Stop thinking in absolutes. Our character would still be dependent on the charity of others to travel vast distances to discover lands which he can utilise freely without interference from locals who would lay claim to it. And so being dependent on charity, he would not be able to become a self made man by his own thoughts and merits alone. Unless he resorts to theft and other criminal means. Does making conceited comments make you feel good about yourself? You would benefit from some self reflection on that. It doesn't have any bearin

The concept of a thought experiment may have been lost here. Also missing is an argument in support of your final remark? 🤷🏻‍♂️

In the situation I presented it was impossible. I dont think it is unreasonable to live independently! The only alternative to employment would be to starve to death in this situation. You could argue his employment is voluntary, a choice. Given he wants to live, finding employment becomes something he needs to survive (as much as he needs air to breathe). His survival depends solely now on him fulfilling someone else's needs. It is therefore decided socially, collectively perhaps, whether he survives or not, or better put whether he can live as a human being or not. I'm asking

So how would you, as an Objectivist, answer those questions? How do you establish ownership of a natural resource? Objectivists sometimes confuse a house, or a city, or a development (all man made) with the resource I'm talking about. Perhaps another way of positioning the contradiction would be to ask this: The fact you have built your house (or bought it) establishes your ownership. However what establishes your right to place your house where it is? If I wanted to build a road and place it where your house currently is, why can't I just move your house somewhere else. W

The difference is stark actually. A business owner has bought or built his business, it's a human endeavour at heart which clearly establishes property rights. You can work for him properly by mutual consent. That's not slavery but healthy human relations. Say you don't want to work for him and instead want to establish your own business. However to do so you require access to land but you are socially excluded from all viable locations. It is not then possible. So your only option is to work for someone. You cannot live independently but must agree to some employment terms and hope you c

As you say this is a reflection point on maintaining or destroying rights to property. It doesn't touch on their establishment... Why did D'Anconia get to establish the copper mine to start with? If there was a dispute over the use of the land beforehand, how would it have been objectively settled by the justice system? Rand used the homesteading principle. Possibly on account of her admiration for much of how the US was founded. Nevertheless it's actually problematic as I said in my previous post. Imagine you come up with an invention in your mind which requires ongoing effort

My biggest issue with objectivism... Its inability to provide a sound basis for establishing private property of natural resources in the form of land. The homesteading argument is by any standards, and particularly against the strength of other objectivist arguments, a cop out. It is arbitrary, weak and poorly defined. It is even contradictory with other parts of objectivist philosophy.

I haven't visited this forum in a while. It pleases me to see some of the recent contributions being made. Well considered & thought out. This is what this forum should be about.

You asked for advice, here is mine: You're not in the right career. If you were doing something you truly loved and were passionate about, you'd not be thinking about when to quit. You need to find work that significantly challenges you, work which matters to your life on a fundamental level. The goals you have for "after" all seem to involve a degree of creativity, discovery and experimentation. It also sounds like you desire the autonomy to pursue your own interests. I'm deducing you're in your early 30's. It is possible by the time you get to "after", your ability to enjoy your in

Re the argument above. To simplify, killing using chemical weapons (although emotionally more distasteful) is no different from using conventional arms to kill someone because the end is the same in both cases. People are offended by indiscriminate killing because it is unreasonable and destroys lives that have value to them. The failure to discriminate tends to result in the violation of rights not just in war. Racism is another example of a failure to discriminate. Racism can be caused when people have had bad experiences with people of a certain race and falsely reason that peopl

You are incorrectly struck. The reality is, in my life I am not going to see billions of people switch from a life driven by emotion and dellusion. Interestingly, many Objectivists are the very quickest to assume malevolence, whilst rejecting the same premise. A contradiction with more than a hint of irony.