SpookyKitty

Spare me your sanctimonious bullshit. If you think there are more pressing problems to solve, you can kindly fuck off and go solve them.
You are the only one degrading the level of discussion here. In case you haven't noticed, this is a philosophy forum. We can talk about whatever we want.
If you aren't interested in participating, then don't.

Yeah ok, but that doesn't answer the question.

Israel is a country whose leaders are either
A) So incredibly stupid, short sighted, dementia brained, and insane that they would fund a radical Islamist group to overthrow a secular government and then act surprised when the Islamist group does Islamist things
or
b) So evil that they did all that on purpose.

A separation of religion and state, and a requirement that any laws that exist have to be justified based on objective reality and reason and nothing else.

South Africa has filed a genocide case against Israel at the ICJ.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/29/middleeast/south-africa-icj-israel-genocide-intl/index.html

Arabs don't have the same rights as Jews. They don't have "Birthright Israel" (and related travel/migration rights), for example, even if they were actually born there and got kicked out. They also don't have the same experience with law enforcement as Jews.
This is also a meaningless question. The Muslims who used to live in Israel and whose rights have been violated the most are not physically there, because they have been kicked out by Jews (1948 Palestinian expulsion). Just because they're not physically in Israel now doesn't mean that the rights of Muslims who had lived in present day Israel hadn't been violated. So yes, the property rights of "Israeli Muslims" have also been violated, but you won't find them in Israel.
The reason you won't find as many "maltreated" Muslims in Jewish majority regions is because the Israeli Muslims whose rights were violated were also ethnically cleansed and no longer exist, not because they weren't maltreated. Acting like the rights of Muslims in Israel weren't violated is equivalent to saying that the rights of murdered (or deported) people weren't violated because they no longer exist (or exist in the same place). Just because these people don't have Israeli citizenship because of being Muslim doesn't mean they aren't from Israel or that their rights weren't violated.
 
Where are Israel's borders?
If you mean the Jewish majority areas with citizenship, there used to be Muslims there who got kicked out (1948 Palestinian expulsion). The rights of Muslims who used to live in Jewish majority regions still got violated, even if they're not physically there now (and don't have Israeli citizenship, even though they're from Israel). Jews took over homes of Muslims using laws such as "Land Acquisition (Validation of Acts and Compensation) Law (1953)". This is a violation of rights "within Israel's borders".
If you mean West Bank, Israel occupies it militarily. Israel is also continually expanding into the West Bank and Jews living in the West Bank have Israeli citizenship, but Muslims don't. Israel de-facto controls West Bank and still kick out Muslims from their homes, as of 2023 (these homes are then taken over by Jews who have Israeli citizenship with help from the Israeli police force and military). What's happening in West Bank already happened in "Israel".
If you mean Gaza, Israel has no direct military control over it, but controls their economy and resources.
Israel doesn't just practice apartheid. It's a mix of ethnic cleansing (in Israel, 1948), apartheid (in West Bank, ongoing) and imperialism (in Gaza, ongoing).

The year is 2023. College kids and twitter posts have assumed absolute, dictatorial power. Guns, bombs and military aid have stopped working. Genocide by words is the new norm. Whites in the US and Jews in Israel are channeling their inner Dodo.
- The Smartest Conservative

I guess when you have room temperature IQ, it's easy to answer that Muslims having rights is equivalent to Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism.
And of course, Judeophobia never existed when Conservatives were chanting "Jews will not replace us", but Jews are virtually genocided as soon as some leftist says Muslims have rights.

6 million is perfect. Not just an ideal solution, but a final solution.

Israel has been in a constant state of war with gaps of maybe only a few years. I can't think of examples of countries that are unable to defeat their enemies for such a long period of time. What more do you want me to say? You could try to blame Islamic fundamentalism as the only reason, but so many countries have even stopped that within their own borders (like in the Balkans) or stopped any further escalation of direct attacks (the US after 9/11). It's still an issue, but it's not a constant threat. 

1-4 is ad hoc without any particular organization besides a general attitude or culture of behavior. 5-10 are all by nature systematic things. If you want to get specific, your link talks about a cultural climate that genocide arises out of. 
My Lai massacre. This is as much a genocide as anything based on what you're saying. Killing anything that moves. And not just a few soldiers that did it. I mean, clearly we are distinguishing forms of barbarism, but I'm saying the word genocide has to be something direct and pervasive. To an extent all war is about 'us' versus 'them' since the vast majority of wars are unjustified. All unjustified wars are in some way racist. Of wars that are only partially justified, you will still find people who support the war for racist reasons. 
There seems to be a difference between starting a war with racist overtones, as opposed to merely exterminating. I mean, the founding charter of Hamas called for the extermination of Jews, not just the end of the Israeli state. If it was just the end of the Israeli state, that wouldn't be genocidal even though it would be still grounded in racism because of what Hamas thought about Jews. The extermination of Jews is genocidal, because that's not just seeking what they see as justice, or what they see as self-defense, but seeking out extermination in and of itself. 
 

Both sides have engaged in indiscriminate killing. War will create some indiscriminate killing. Successful killing in war is to have more firepower than the other side. Hamas engaged in that in Israel and now Israel is engaging in that in Gaza. If we want to go based on per capita body count, then Israel is killing more right now. If we go by openly heinousness, then maybe Hamas wins that game.
But to claim that Israel is not engaging in indiscriminate killing is easily disproven. Or that Palestinians don't have any reason to be resentful is easily disproven. Currently, Israel cannot discriminate between their people, the hostages, and the enemy. The debate is now about the percentage of people killed as if the percentages determine if it is a killing, a murder, or a genocide.
Both sides don't understand that it's the indiscriminate hate that is the problem, it won't stop. One side will always find a weak point and attack it and this will go on forever. In other words, the hate cannot guide toward the ideal and the ideal is not the annihilation of the other side.

Sorry, i forgot to address that. But it must be addressed because it's very important and also a common form of genocide denial.
Genocides almost never occur in an all at once fashion. Genocide and holocaust scholars recognize that genocides happen in stages of escalating hate and violence:
The stages are:
Classification – The differences between people are not respected. There’s a division of ‘us’ and ‘them’ which can be carried out using stereotypes, or excluding people who are perceived to be different. Symbolisation – This is a visual manifestation of hatred. Jews in Nazi Europe were forced to wear yellow stars to show that they were ‘different’. Discrimination – The dominant group denies civil rights or even citizenship to identified groups. The 1935 Nuremberg Laws stripped Jews of their German citizenship, made it illegal for them to do many jobs or to marry German non-Jews. Dehumanisation – Those perceived as ‘different’ are treated with no form of human rights or personal dignity. During the Genocide against the Tutsi in Rwanda, Tutsis were referred to as ‘cockroaches’; the Nazis referred to Jews as ‘vermin’. Organisation – Genocides are always planned. Regimes of hatred often train those who go on to carry out the destruction of a people. Polarisation – Propaganda begins to be spread by hate groups. The Nazis used the newspaper Der Stürmer to spread and incite messages of hate about Jewish people. Preparation – Perpetrators plan the genocide. They often use euphemisms such as the Nazis’ phrase ‘The Final Solution’ to cloak their intentions. They create fear of the victim group, building up armies and weapons. Persecution – Victims are identified because of their ethnicity or religion and death lists are drawn up. People are sometimes segregated into ghettos, deported or starved and property is often expropriated. Genocidal massacres begin. Extermination – The hate group murders their identified victims in a deliberate and systematic campaign of violence. Millions of lives have been destroyed or changed beyond recognition through genocide. Denial – The perpetrators or later generations deny the existence of any crime. Source: https://www.hmd.org.uk/learn-about-the-holocaust-and-genocides/what-is-genocide/the-ten-stages-of-genocide/
The argument that "Well, they didn't kill them all at once, so no genocide occurred," can be made at almost any point during the extermination of a people. We must recognize and condemn genocide BEFORE the victims are all exterminated.

If anyone here is still misinformed enough to believe that Israel is anything but an almost indescribably evil, racist, genocidal lunatic state led by twisted, sick men who promulgate the most anti-man, anti-western ideologies imaginable, then watch this lecture by Israeli investigative journalist David Sheen wherein he describes the Israeli far-right "Messianic" movement and its connections to the Israeli government.
He first talks about the beliefs of the religious far-right rabbis at Israel's top military academy. The religious far-right is fully in the mainstream of Israeli society. They constitute the second largest group in the Knesset. Remember that these people are TO THE LEFT of the messianic movement. The views of the religious far right are already so extreme that I cannot even begin to comprehend the sheer level of madness that is required to believe them. One of the rabbis wants to bring back slavery. Another describes his own ideology as explicitly anti-man and claims that Western values are the "true" holocaust.  A third one describes Hitler as "the most moral person possible". This is the Israeli MAINSTREAM. THIS GARBAGE IS WHAT IDF OFFICERS ARE TAUGHT.
But The Messianics are somehow even more extreme than this. How? How? It's so crazy it cannot be believed. Watch this video to fully understand what we are dealing with here and how this affects American politics:
 

Thank you for the detailed answer, augmented by references. However, your answer is incomplete: you are only trying to justify your genocide claim, but neglect your claim about the racist motivation.
OK, let’s deal with what is available. You correctly identify the main, and an extraordinary complex difficulty, of justifying an accusation of genocide, which necessitates proving the intention to destroy, “in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such”. In our case it is about the – still unspecified! – Palestinians; to alleviate your task, I will assume that you refer to Gazans only (you chose not to take advantage of the possibility to amend your claim in order to specify this).
Now, on the formal side: who is authorized to qualify an action as genocide? Is it you or me? It is the political commentators or experts? Is it NGOs, ICRC or other international organizations?
According to the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide from which you extracted the definition of genocide, it works in the following way: the signatories commit themselves to (a) enact, in their countries, the necessary legislation and (b) to try the persons charged by a competent tribunal (art. V and VI). Therefore, although the guilt of IDF/government is, in your view, “beyond question”, it is, in fact, not for me, or for you, or for … to make such a complex determination, but for a tribunal.
However, let’s consider your argumentation, to see if it supports at least the plausibility of a genocide verdict. 
In support of your genocide claim you quote three or four Israeli politicians who threatened Hamas, or the Palestinians, at different times, with belligerent rhetoric containing the most terrifying, god-supported, punishments. But these are words, Politicians’ words ! Were they translated into military tactic, policy, field orders? You have still to prove it, but the reality suggest otherwise – see below. 
If the objective is genocidal extermination, that is the killing of as many people as possible, any prior evacuation order, establishment of evacuation routes, issuing warning messages, leaflets, maps indicating safe areas etc. are simply absurd. Instead, if the objective were to kill all Gazans, a surprise attack, by night, with all IDF’s means simultaneously – all bombers, cannons, tanks - should have been enacted for carpet bombing of Gaza. And a repeat in the next hours in order to finish off the survivors, including the wounded. 
Is this what Israel did? No, but the usual pro-Hamas propagandists had no other choice but to say it did. But what do the facts suggest? 
With about 15-20’000 dead (just assuming, generously, that Hamas numbers are true and that all dead are civilian), after the above described carpet bombing of Gaza, allegedly the most densely populated, 2.4 million city in the world, there should have been at least 1-200’000 dead and 300’00 to 800’000 wounded. After the first day of a carpet bombing... Even Hamas’ total numbers are orders of magnitude lower. 
Your evidence is far from being conclusive. I am afraid your genocide arguments fell flat on its face. However, you may improve on it, but don’t forget about the racism argument.
But first of all, try to get some solid facts. Don’t do like @whYNOT in the Russian Aggression Against Ukraine thread, where he showed to be blatantly unaware of real facts and was following instead the opinions of, mostly notorious, pro-Putin propagandists.

I have not gone too far.
Genocide is defined as:
"In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts
committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical,
racial or religious group, as such :
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to
bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group."
Source:
The UN resolution in 1948 that defined the crime of Genocide: https://treaties.un.org/doc/Publication/UNTS/Volume 78/volume-78-I-1021-English.pdf
That Israel is guilty of at least (a), (b), and (c) is beyond question at this point. The difficult part in cases such as this is proving intent. Thanks to Benjamin Netanyahu, this is now easy.
In a recent speech, Netanyahu said "You must remember what Amalek has done to you," quoting the Bible. For those that don't know, the full quote is
 
Source: https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2023/11/benjamin-netanyahu-amalek-israel-palestine-gaza-saul-samuel-old-testament/
Netanyahu is neither unusual for an Israeli politician and government official, nor as this even new for him. There is a long-standing pattern of genocidal rhetoric within the Israeli government:
Source: https://ccrjustice.org/sites/default/files/attach/2016/10/Background on the term genocide in Israel Palestine Context.pdf

Go to war with Iran, while financing the war in Ukraine. Of course, we should also eradicate North Korea while we are at it. Get rid of all of the evil in the world. As if all of this is free and without any regretful consequence. 
The potential for World War Three is being ignored. 1400 innocent Israelis have been killed, but part of it is due to Israeli negligence which one could argue: is still going on. The future animosity being created is not to the advantage of Israel. Relations with Israel and Arab countries were being normalized. Not anymore with the kind of massive killing that is going on in Gaza.
We have fought the Taliban, trying to eradicate them with a giant coalition, Afghanistan is a far more backward country than Iran and now, after 20 years of fighting them and 2 trillion dollars spent, we are supporting the Taliban government's existence. Has the experience in Vietnam been already forgotten? That's an example of what the "eradication mindset" gets you. Hamas is staying in some form or another because they are the only Palestinian voice that Israel has heard and reacted to. It may or may not be dominant moving forward but it won't go away as long as they need to have a resistance movement. With all the revenge policy at work, the only solution is to better the lives of the Palestinians. It is a very bitter medicine but it is the only one that will work. Subjugation or ethnic cleansing won't work in this day and age.
Getting rid of Iran is not as simple as you seem to think or it would have been done by now.
Iran has 80 million people and most of the population can read and write because it is compulsory. Recall how they caused oil prices to spike with one cruise missile into Saudi Arabian oil fields. Their drone technology is advanced enough that they supply Russia with its war in Ukraine. Meanwhile, do you think that Russia and China will just watch their financial interests in Iran disappear without putting up some resistance?
 

The more I think about it, the more evident it is that Israel has consistently failed at fighting it. Strictly on the pragmatic side, Israel sucks at fighting totalitarian Islam. Ideological failure if you ask me. I prefer Israel over Hamas, but I'd much rather something over both of them. An unequivocal defender of liberty, not someone just barely good enough. 
 

Yes, how evil of me to ask Israel to sacrifice "higher" values such as oppression, systemic murder, property and land theft, racism, and religious discrimination to "lower" values such as justice, equality, and peace.

Nice deflection. I didn't say I didn't care, I only expressed the basic idea that just because somebody does something bad to you doesn't mean that everything you have ever done is therefore good. You seem to be reacting as if I said that Hamas and Israel are morally equivalent. Earlier I even said that I am more on the side of Israel morally speaking. Grames seems to portray Hamas and Israel as morally equivalent, in which case "not caring" makes sense, but I don't have a reason to think that the actions of Israel are equally as premised on religion as Hamas. 
You could call "Islamism" the Muslim form of Zionism. Judaism is a religion like any other. Some religions may be more totalitarian than others, but nationalism premised on a religion is still irrational and tends toward totalitarianism anyway. 
"Don't mind me, I'm going to forcibly place myself in the region where you live, then act like I've been here for 5000 years because it is my ancestral homeland." 
An important way to end the conflict is adopting principles of liberty explicitly, and addressing errors of the past that are still relevant today (70 years since the founding of Israel, it's not like I'm talking about something that happened 5000 years ago). 

Whatever Hamas does doesn't mean that Israel was retroactively justified in being founded on principles of Zionism. 
Got anything to back that up? I genuinely want to know what the estimates are. Any link would be enough.

Keep being ignorant of social realities. Power structures and hierarchies exist and humans function within it. You're living in a fantasy land where you think people are, by their own moral failures, responsible for their oppression by others and deserve it.
I don't blame you for your opinions. Not the first time you've echoed White nationalist (or in this case, the adjacent Zionist) talking points. You know what those evil "anti-racist" commies say: "Scratch a liberal and ... ".

I mean, am I wrong to say that Israel effectively occupies Gaza, albeit more like a siege than a direct military occupation like the West Bank? Even if there is an ostensive "government", Gaza doesn't have political autonomy anyway. That's my point, the only enemy is Hamas, not Gaza, and not Palestine because as you said, Palestine is not really even a thing. 
That makes sense, my concern is that Israel will just continue with military occupations as part of the methods for "total defeat". Occupations like that don't work, and it makes me doubt that the Israeli government cares much about liberty, even a little bit. 

Yes, how evil of me to ask Israel to sacrifice "higher" values such as oppression, systemic murder, property and land theft, racism, and religious discrimination to "lower" values such as justice, equality, and peace.

Israel bombs Gaza (which has a population density similar to cities) indiscriminately and spins it as "Hamas is using civilians as a human shield". If they wanted to actually kill militants, they should send soldiers, not missiles.