AwakeAndFree

That's definitely true. And yes, I know it's useless trying to convince the irrational. I find I have a tendency to be over forgiving, however. It takes me a long time to recognize consistent irrationality. I first attribute it to a misunderstanding, then to an honest mistake, then to some emotional state - and only finally I understand that this is pure, unadulterated, vicious irrationality. I think perhaps it is easier to see these things when you read back the posts in a forum, than when you are trying to recreate old conversations.... BTW - Dismuke, I'm currently listening to your radio station. Keep on the good work!

Really? I bothered so much for nothing! Isn't there a way to know these things in advance? There should be a notice: Troll. Really!

The question is efficient for whom, and for what? It is certainly not more efficient for anyone with a property worth stealing. And it's not effiicient in the sense that it may prevent investment in areas that may be seized by the government's next big plan.

Wow, what an impressive exit RCR! Only a truly reasonable man would run away after the first sign of criticism, without bothering to state one single fact for his defense. And is that condescending tone supposed to sound clever? I wouldn't know about these things. What I do know is that hostility manifests itself in a lot of weird ways. The most common smearing in our places is calling someone unreasonable. Unfrotunately for the online smearers, the entire course of discussion is forever saved online - and their irrationality is blatantly obvious. You don't even have to know the subject involved - the observation can be made on purely formal terms. This is how it looks like: X: fact-based criticism. Y: Blames X for being irrational. X: another fact-base remark. Y: Blames X for being childish. X: Trying to get back to the subject. Y: Blames X for being stubborn and insensitive. X: Asking Y to please calm down, and offering another fact based argument. Y: Declares he can't communicate with such unreasonable people, and leaves. I have seen this pattern too many times. BTW - does anyone have a tip on effectively dealing with situations like this? It usually takes me a long time to understand what I'm dealing with...

Ban the Bastards! Should Nazis be allowed to participate? Of course not, you say. And are Communists better? Not historically. Not ideologically. Not personally. The only difference is that Communism has a more sophisticated veneer, that can fool some of the younger, less experienced people. But this is no reason to give them a stage.

Is it? Funny. I live in Israel for 24 years, and I haven't noticed. The few laws that ARE religiously oriented (for example - having to close stores on certain Jewish holidays and Saturdays) are under constant attack, and many ignore them anyway. As for being racist - this is far from exact. Israel was (wrongly, I admit) established as a haven for Jews running away from the holocaust. Therefore - there are laws that make immigration to Israel much easier for Jews than for non-Jews. However, there are millions of Arabs, Muslim and Christians, there are Israelis from African, European, American (north and south) and Asian origin - and they receive equal rights and equal protection under the law. And the most important thing is that the people, by and large, are not racist, nor religious. Over 70% of Israelis are secular! It's amazing how little the average person knows about Israel. I have a Chinese roommate who was shocked to see half naked women on our daily papers. As for lack of regard to "basic Palestinian rights" - this is propaganda perpetrated by the terrorists and their dictator. Israel, even while in a state of war, gave better treatment to Palestinians than they would get in Jordan (where they were butchered at the first sign of rebeliousness) or other Arab countries. Israel goes out of its way to target specific individuals and organizations, because it feels reponsible for the civilian population. Notice the assassination of Yassin, who died with his bodyguards and not a single innocent civillian. I happen to know many people who participate in these actions, and I hear about the extreme length they go to avoid hurting civillians - to the extent of endangering Israeli lives! In fact, we treat them too well for our own good.

Hello everyone. My name is Eran Dror. Born 1980. Objectivist since 1998. I got to here after a recommendation from MinorityOfOne. I live in Haifa, Israel, and will soon get my B.A. in History from the University of Haifa. My career goal is becoming a fiction writer, in the English language. I've wanted to write from a very young age. Around August of this year I plan to move to the United States with the purpose of immigration. For the past 4.5 years I've been working as a computer journalist. You can read more about me at: www.erandror.com/aboutme.html Or visit my new blog at EranDror.com

You're right. TOC is of no possible value. I just thought of the symbolism. No real point in buying them out. As for Rantissi... he's just a small fry compared to Yassin. When they took Yassin down I knew the rest of the Hamas will eventually go down with him. But yes, I was happy when they killed him too.

This is good news! I haven't felt this uplifting sense of justice since Israel killed Sheikh Yassin! Maybe ARI should buy them out? I mean - taking over the name, the website, the physical properties, firing the management and inviting honest members to join ARI? Just a crazy idea.

Well, I do like my eyes, and my girlfriend's nose... but you're right: my knowledge and values are more important. BTW - You seem to assume that no mental abilities (for example - different kinds of intelligence) are hereditary. As far as I know - there is no conclusive proof to either side yet.

Hi Ori! My name is Eran Dror, I'm 24 and I live in Haifa, Israel (for the next few months, anyway). I didn't read the specific article you're talking about... I'll try to look at it later... but - did you know we have quite a vibrant Objectivist Club in Israel? Write me and I'll give you more details. I join the rest here in recommending you read Ayn Rand's fiction. I can't believe you started with the nonfiction! (Actually, now that I think of it, I also started reading AR's novels only after I read a book about her philosophy... but not her own works). It's always nice seeing someone excited after reading AR for the first time.

I think this is the key to the whole issue! That's why we write Objectivism with a capital "O". People who use the name Objectivism to denote something different than "the philosophy of Ayn Rand" are simply usurping the name she invented and gave her philosophy, and using it to denote something different, with the purpose of erasing the legitimate usage. Suppose I founded a new country, and called it "The United States of America", and then proceeded to print "US Dollars". Or suppose I started a software company and called it Microsoft, and started selling products called Microsoft Windows, but actually completely different from the original... This is the exact same issue: some people are simply trying to profit from the reputation of Ayn Rand, even though they can't provide the same goods.

I write this post from Haifa, Israel. Israel is far from being perfect - and the two problems you described are serious. However both of them (the compulsory army service, and the inherent favoritism for religious jews) are both debated very heavily in Israel. The truth is that today less than 50% of young people ever serve in the army. There is a plan to privatize the army and this is supported by many in the army and the parliament. It will take a few years at least to implement - but we're heading there. As to favoritism of religious jews: this is an old vestige of the Israeli welfare state, that achieved a semblance of unity when signing an agreement with religious jews back in the late 40s, sparing them from Army service, and establishing a status quo regarding many religious laws: For example - forbiding of public transportation on Saturday. These laws are being cancelled one by one, and many government companies (the latest one being El-Al, the airline company) were recently privatized, and therefore stopped being influence by the status quo agreement and resulting laws. As for being "the chosen people": this is a very religious notion, and I don't personally know ANYONE here in Israel who believes this. Only the Ultra-religious do, and they compose less than 20% of the population. Seculars are around 70%, and 10% are religious on varying degrees. (BTW - even those few who believe Jews to be "the chosen people" see it as a mark of duty towards the other peoples, not necessarily of racial superiority. They believe jews were chosen to lead the other peoples into moral perfection. You can't really compare it with the Nazis, who believed in a different kind of hierarchy). Israel's third largest party (and some say it will be the second largest by next elections), called Shinui (meaning - Change), rose to it's current position by writing "separation of religion and state" on it's ideological banner. This is a party which is explicitly secular, support free markets and push for abolition of many laws that force religious imperatives on seculars. Shinui is now the second largest party in the government - they hold the ministry of interior, the ministry of justice, the ministry of science - and more! Just to give you an example - there is a law forbidding to display bread for sale on Passover. You can sell it, but not display it in public domain. The fine for breaking this law is around 100$. Shinui couldn't abolish this law in parliament - but they did not enforce it (the minister of interior is responsible for sending inspectors - and he, being a Shinui member, did not). Israel still has a long way to go to reach the level of freedom in America, but when I look at America I see deterioration in this respect, while Israel is getting freer and better from year to year. I think in terms of religion, Israel's culture is far more secular than American. Religious people are a minority, and they are clearly marked (they wear a special skullcap, which is clearly visible, and you can avoid them pretty easily :-) ). I plan to move to the US by this year's end. But I want to assure you that Israeli people have in general a lot of respect for the individual, and work hard to make Israel a better, freer place. And that's DESPITE the fact that Israel is suffering one of the worst times in its history. P.S. (1) - Drafting a constitution is also heavily debated here in Israel, and I believe the public is in favour, and so are more secular politicians. However, the block of religious party can make passing a liberal constitution quite hard. This brings us back to Shinui party - that are one of the forces behind the idea of an Israeli constitution. P.S. (2) - The "Foundation Law" or "Basic law" that someone mentioned is exactly like a constitution in it's legal sense: It needs a very special majority to change (85 out of 120 parliament members), no laws can contradict it, and the courts must interpret any legal case according to them. However - these "basic laws" are built in patches, and are sometimes deliberately unclear, or even seemingly contradictory. That's why Israel needs a new constitution to be drafted from scratch. I personally believe it will be best to wait until religious parties lose their momentum, and Shinui gains more influence.

There are many levels of religiosity to be considered. And this whole poll is meaningless if not compared with the general demographics of different religions. For example - if jews are just 5% of the general population, but 9% of Objectivists, that can say something. Also - if Catholics are 50% of the population but only 25% of Objectivists.