Gazz

True enough, but for many its like learning a language, a child may not have the option to *choose* the langauge they learn, but speak it anyhow by the time they are fully developed....so back to topic if your done nitpicking! G Ok, found one I emailed the site owner the following....still awaiting his reply.. "Dear Mr. Thompson, I have been reading through your forum (http://www.christianforums.net/), particularly the Apologetics section and find the arguments *wanting* on both sides. I would like to have your permission to sign onto your forum and debate some topics. I may also bring a few of my comrades from an atheist website to join the debates. I will avoid personal attacks, and keep the debate as civil and respectful as possible. I have read your policy “Any person(s) who comes to these forums to attack Christianity or Christians personally will be banned based on the discretion of the Admins & Mods.”, To properly debate, aspects of Christianity will have to be the subject of debate, if you maintain a forum labeled “apologetics”, yet do not welcome attacks on the principles of Christianity; you are doing yourself a disservice. Not to mention insulating yourself from all outside critique and thoughtful debate. I propose we be allowed to start topics such as Philosophical arguments for god Scientific arguments for god Faith Vs Reason The historicity of Jesus Bible accuracy and contradictions The god of Christianity Revelation The design arguments The sins of Christianity Ethics and rationality Thanks for reading; I hope you will consider testing your knowledge, intellectual honesty, faith and integrity via a respectful debate on the beliefs you promote. Also be advised: This email and your responses will be made public, I await your answer.. Best Regards, Gary R."

"I think this is the surest way to find yourself labeled a troll and waste your time being ignored." Well, If we have permission from the forum owner/mods to post such a topic in advance we can avoid the whole trolling label. Being ignored is quite possible, especially when it comes to specific points that we might make. Much of our debate may go over their heads, since they may not have the intellectual capacity to understand, or more likely be emotionaly ready to entertain ideas contrary to their existing belief systems. What does give me hope is the amount of atheists I meet on forums and in person who once held deep religious beliefs. Most people dont start out Atheist, the acquire an education and freethought and become that way. We should at least attempt to provide that education, and hope to plant that nugget of freethought into the *flock* of mindless followers. G

Thanks for the nomination! Although I dont really have the time for a *formal* debate at this time, later I would be up to it. Additionally I am not extremely eductaed in the philosophy of Objectivism yet, I would be pulling my arguements from B. Russell, Smiths book, and whatever misc. Knowledge I have on the issue myself. Anyone else up for it? If not, I may break down and go for it....seems sort of futile though as the devils advocate im sure is already on the side of reason! G

Interesting, I see your point about polishing a turd, and It is quite obvious that the use of reason may be beyond many of the theists immediate grasp. That is terrible about the UK, I did not know religion was in public schools and paid for by taxes. Makes my complaints from the USA seem minimal. However our culture is typically looked at and copied by many other countries. If we started a reason over faith trend, it may push outwards. Especially since we have a "war on terror" which is ironically a war on people that just take the same type of irrationality to an extreme. The irony is in the failure to recognize both sides are suffering from the same sickness; one is just more progressed in its symptoms. When you look at the fact that 96% of Americans believe in God, and 73% believe that angels visit the earth, you realize that even with the rise of technology and science our population still suffers from ignorance and fear/emotional based delusions and beliefs. As nice and comforting a thought as faith may be it definitely leads to a mental and societal stagnation, and in the long run what is scary is that it may lead to the end of civilization. While everyone sits around and waits for the rapture our world population will keep increasing , which means by around 2600 we will literally be standing shoulder to shoulder on this planet and the electricity consumption would make the earth glow red hot. If faith is allowed to stifle science, and govern (short-circuit) the thinking of our populace, the results could be a self-induced "rapture" that leads to nothing but our extinction and non-existence, we will all go back to being "stardust". In the USA we have the opportunity to speak out and slap faith straight on the face with its own ignorance, we can hold up the mirror and demand a spade be called a spade for the good of mankind. Hopefully we can set the example for others like the UK, and then truly will be have a legitimate right to look at Islam and point the finger of fundamentalist shame. As a side note: I own a small production company, and am thinking about producing a small series of shows titled "The war on faith", I think going out an actively debating Theists on their own forums could shed some light as to how I should script the shows, and divide the topics...if anyone has any Production Exp. or is interested in helping with the show either financially or with any other services (web links, marketing, graphics...etc..) it would be much appreciated as the show idea is in the infant stage. If interested in helping in any capacity please email me [email protected]. So anyway, ill be looking for some forums, so far my google search has found many, but none that seem to welcome outside debate, in fact many specifically have rules against it, and will ban any poster who differs in opinion. G

Hey Everyone, I put this on another forum (www.ravingatheist.com), additionally I am new here, so if this is the wrong spot please move the thread and accept my apologies. Basically I would like to find some popular Theistic forums, preferably Christian (since it’s most prominent in the west) and launch some debates. Justification for an offensive? Well, to make it REALLY short: They knock on my door monthly, invade my television screen, bang on our school doors politically, and currently in the USA there are 4 churches for every 1 school. Religion is literally a non-taxed con-game Short-circuiting the critical thinking of our masses. Faith is being taught and pushed on our society more than REASON and education, i think being *respectful* of their views is a copout on our part. We don’t have to be insulting or rude, but we also don’t have to respect their position of faith as an informed intellectual decision and philosophical position. Religion has retarded social and moral progress as Bertrand R. basically puts it. Ok, the pep talk is over, does anyone have any links to forums of the like? If not, ill look around...how many people are on board? V/R G

Hello everyone, I am happy to have found this great forum, I look forward to learning and discussing many things. I just recently discovered "objectivism", but have been a "realist" for a long time, as well as an atheist.... Brief background: I teach Martial arts- www.flowingcombat.com, www.insidersasia.com, and I am an active duty Air Force member. Hobbies include of course martial arts, and videography (just getting into that business). I enjoy reading and learning in my *spare* time, and am constantly in awe of the intellectual bankruptcy of those around me of *faith* and not reason. Regards, Gary AKA *Gazz* PS: Any advice on the MUST READ threads or website links would be appreciated