thejohngaltline

So, if I draw a stick-figure representing a heroic man, perhaps draw him standing proudly atop a stick-figure mountain, that is quality art? Or if I write a novel that lacks style and form and shows no rhetorical skill whatsoever, but depicts a woman's struggle and success in the corporate world, that is valuable art? I agree that concretizing one's values is essential to great works of art, but I cannot concede that talent and skill have nothing to do with it.

Heh, yeah. I wonder if there's not some bigger mind behind the movie who's told her to say that if questioned on Objectivism, to keep her from misspeaking.

Angelina Jolie was recently interviewed about the progress of the film (excerpts below). I like what she says, but I'm instinctively skeptical. If she really understood Objectivism, wouldn't a short summary have been doable?

At the risk of outing myself as an extreme minority here… I like this poem. (Charlotte cowers) It is not the best poem I have read, but it is not the worst. And there is much more in its favor than “that it rhymes”. The poem wields a fine diction that appears effortless in the midst of the stream of consciousness flow. There is clever analogy, as in “Streets that follow like a tedious argument,” where the reader (or at least this reader) steps back to marvel at the unique comparison made, sensing a familiarity in it. In speaking of the fog there is personification, that it “Licked its tongue into the corners of the evening,” and the image is quite poignant. One can sense the thick movement of the fog, feel the weight of an evening in which it lingers. He backs up the personification with imagery, as in “And seeing that it was a soft October night,/Curled once about the house, and fell asleep.” The soothing feel of these lines is carefully crafted, in the consonance of the S sound and the sparse but selective use of adjectives (i.e., “soft” and “October”). That the events and people Eliot references are ambiguous is not, to me, the point. I presume that he wrote this with his own intent, and so whether or not the readers knew who the women talking of Michelangelo were, or represented, was not his priority. In any case, I appreciate the use of rhetorical techniques in the poem, despite the lack of a coherent series of events.

What do you mean by "saving sex"? It seems to me that who one has sex with, or is attracted to, or lusts after, is always a representation of his or her self esteem. On one level, a man might lust after a beautiful woman because she represents, physically, what is healthy and efficacious and well-designed. On another level, a man may love a woman because she is rational and intelligent and virtuous. In both cases, there is a reflection of his values in this attraction. In the cases of bestiality and necrophilia, one is demonstrating an attraction to something subhuman or degenerate. Such an action could never be in the moral right for a rational person, who recognizes his or her own worth and craves a partner of equal capacity.

It sounds to me that she needs this time to think firstly of herself, so your goal might be to give her some food for thought, maybe a passage of Rand's (B. Royce's suggestion is a good one, or maybe something from VOS) and include a personal note with it. Tell her simply what you love about yourself, what you love about her (and that the former is why you are able to recognize and celebrate the latter), and what you love about your relationship. I would keep it to a sort of minimum and let her do the rest of the thinking on her own. Fight the feeling that you need to remind her to love you. That will be a rational conclusion she can reach on her own during this trip. Three weeks of hiking sounds like it could be a great chance for logical introspection.

Hah, me too! I used to pronounce it wrong specifically to make it rhyme more nicely. I like that! I only gave Christianity a "try" for the first couple years of my adolescence, before the pastor of my parents' church did me the favor of discounting it once and for all (I told him I wanted to be a writer when I grew up and he responded that it would be a sin to use a talent God gave me for my own pleasure... Makes me sick now.) But, looking back on it, I remember what attracted me to Christianity most strongly was the concept of Jesus as a perfect man, and the idea that perfection was attainable--even if only by mimicking God. Sheesh, glad I straightened that mess out!

Oh yeah, I know all about the get-em-while-they're-young technique. I was raised going to church five days a week. Luckily, my parents couldn't afford to send me to a private Christian school (but I'm sure they would have loved to do so), and I think the broader education I received in public school and my own interest in reading is what led me to finally question the "unquestionable" religion I was taught. That's quite a report card there, Spnao. Real 'fridge worthy stuff.

I have a friend who recently began working as a "paper writer" for a company that offers specialized essay writing services to students. Basically how it works is: a student contacts the company with a topic and a deadline, the company has one of their writers write it, the client signs a form stating that the paper is for research use only and will be properly cited in the essay the student hands in, money is exchanged, end of story. Everyone knows, however, that these students will simply hand in the paper they bought, rather than use it for "research purposes." Initially, when I heard about this job, I sensed (although I couldn't articulate exactly why) that it was immoral. It just left that sour taste in my mouth--the whole idea was so second-handed. But, the more I think about it the more I reconsider. Technically, one would simply be doing the job he was hired to do: writing a paper to be used as a research tool. Of course, that paper could (and, in this case, would) be plagiarized just as anything else one writes and puts out in the public might be. Also, because the clients agree when purchasing the paper to use it as a research tool, any repurcussions for not doing so fall on their shoulders. I guess I would analogize it to selling guns. It's not the gunseller's responsibility to make sure his clients don't use the guns he sells to kill puppies. Here is the disclaimer on the website So, what do you all think?

No, sadly, they didn't play very legitimate twenties music. I did listen to Radio Dismuke while I got ready, though!

I went to a 1920s party last night and felt very Dominique... EDIT: I have no idea why these loaded upside down, they're right on my computer.

Well, I'm not married, but I am a woman and I do have likes and dislikes, so I guess I'm qualified to respond. That said, did you have a specific verse in mind yet? And are you turned off by the association with Christianity?

I was trying to find a picture of the billboards they used to advertise Atlas Shrugged and stumbled across this Wiki page. I wonder if Rand had ever heard of him?

I've recently been following Dawkins, too. Just picked up The God Delusion. I also found this on Dawkins' website, it's a great introduction made by David Cowan before one of Dawkins' lectures.

Hmm, I'm getting them too, now, and I use Safari. I'll try switching skins and report back. EDIT: Worked like a charm. Thanks!

From the Post article: ...I'm impressed he was able to sell books back for that much! I usually get a whopping 40 bucks, after the 400 I spent initially. Although eight semesters' worth of books at once might do the trick. That is amazing! Something tells me we'll hear this guy's name again in the future.

I remember hearing in one of Peikoff's lectures--I think it was "My Thirty Years With Ayn Rand", if anyone has the CD maybe they can search for it--him describing a conversation he had with Rand regarding lying. He asked her if it was ever okay to lie and she prompted him to think of a lie which he thought might be moral. He came up with scenario after scenario and to each she responded with a series of chain events that that original lie would incur, i.e. a business man making a seemingly white lie that Rand illustrated could conceivably lead to the eventual downfall of his business. I've always found that synopsis helpful in evaluating the invalidity of lying.

Is massage parlor some sort of euphemism for brothel? You make a dire error, here. The quote does not refer to seeking out the least poor quality whore house in which to seek "moral sexual desire". Rather, it renounces these and refers instead to a sexual desire that is mindful and discriminate--not of cleanliness or fear of cops--but of the beauty of the reasoning mind in your partner that so reflects your own values. Evaluating and adoring the character of one worthy of your dedication and seeking out the least filthy location in which to pay for a loveless orgasm are laughably incomparable. This means that your lover epitomizes the qualities which stimulate your mind most--and therefore your sexual desires as well. As far as masturbation goes, why would it not be based on these same principles? Sexual pleasure rightfully derived from the thought of a person that is a whole embodiment of one's ideals. Please clarify. [Edit: Fixed formatting on the quotes. Matt]

I was referring to the quote directly above that statement as being a summation of moral sexual desire: I can think of no necessary addendum to what Lockitch is saying, here. Moral sexual desires are those that stem from this embodiment of personal values, and not from anything less.

Hmm, I'm a little late tuning into this thread, but I thought this bit of the ARI's recent op-ed piece, by Keith Lockitch regarding birth control, seemed relevant to the discussion: (http://www.aynrand.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=13367&news_iv_ctrl=1021) I don't see how visiting a strip club could possibly fit into that correct summation of moral sexual desire. The two arguments that I would give the most credit to have been mentioned a few times: 1) That going to a strip club is moral just like paying to watch any dancer would be moral, and 2) That going to a strip club is not necessarily done for sexual stimulation but to be in a fun atmosphere In response to the first I'll have to echo what's been said, in that if you want to watch a beautiful woman dance, and appreciate it purely for that reason with no lustful intent, then buy a ticket to the ballet instead of watching women degrade themselves in front of men who worship their bodies but not their minds, and emphasize this divorce of sexual values from personal values by sticking ones into these women's g-strings. To the second, I have never been into a strip club, but I have been at a bar on the wrong night, when women were stripping, and found the experience incredibly negative. The faces of the men watching these women were animal, slobbering and mindless. It literally turned my stomach to witness. I imagine a strip club is no different, and therefore can't imagine how this is the type of environment in which one may have a good time. edit: forgot an S

Hmm, you may be right as far as grammar goes. I never took it in school, but learned it when I spent a summer in France. Conversationally, at least, I think it would be pauvre homme.

In French: L'opera du pauvre homme The E in 'opera' needs an accent, a line slanting up to the right over it. I don't know how to do it on my keyboard.

I had to read Rachel Carson (the environmentlaist who was essential in the movement to ban the use of DDT and other pesticides in America) for a summer school class this year, and I've been keeping an eye on the controversy over DDT since then. I'm certainly glad to see this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4264374.stm Finally, someone has recognized that human life is infinitely more valuable than that of a mosquito's. I like what Yaron Brook said about it in a press release from the ARI... “The environmentalists’ persistent opposition to the use of DDT shows that they are indifferent to human suffering. This is because environmentalism places the ‘preservation’ of nature above the requirements of human survival and prosperity." Here's to pesticides!

Funny that you mention it; at my local grocery store there is a wall of artwork done by local elementary students, and this month it is featuring tributes to Pluto (imagine a wall of blue circles, only varying in their lopsidedness), with a petition made by the students to "save" this planetary underdog. Glad to hear someone is handling it correctly with their child!

...Or, "Check Your Premises"? Tons of good possibilities. Any entrepreneurs in the jewelry market out there?