Hazmatac

Ok, ok, I know what the word I means! The thing is, I rarely if ever use it in my head. I was laying in bed recalling something I read in a book about meditation about people attaching a lot onto that concept in their heads, and also recalled how most meditation instructors say how there are countless thoughts running through peoples heads all the time. Well, I thought there might be a connection. Anyway, I thought the thought "I" two times, and upon hearing it I knew two things: it was MY voice, and it meant me. Well, I stopped thinking it as I was just trying it, but it felt pretty natural. I was just "trying" the thought and I think I cut it off prematurely. In the future if I get the chance again I won't "cut it off" so quick. I felt a connection to the thought, and got the impression that it is something that is easy to get used to, and as those meditation books say, make you think a lot.

Yeah, I don't think its really a big deal, but good for practice. Not exactly life or death I would say

I agree with you that being healthy and fit is a material value, and regard working out at the gym as being productive, but I do not think that rest is creating a value, any more than a girl isn't being productive by "creating" a baby. It is a natural process. And remember, that all virtues are traced back to thinking.

I second Greebo

Yes, I think I should have attributed more survival value to spiritual values, you're right. The virtue of pride leads to a spiritual value which is as vital as creating material values, for example.

Because material values is what is necessary for survival, not spiritual values. You can be happy, but that is not going to help you physically SURVIVE. Even if you are living as a parasite, you still need material values made by others to sustain your life. That is why it is one of the essential parts when describing the virtue of productivity.

I know you didn't, which is why your argument is invalidated, since the standard of productiveness is the creation of material values.

I never said that you said rest creates values, I said that that's what you would have to argue to make your claim that sleeping or inactivity is productive. And if that's not the standard of it being productive, what is? Materiality is part of the definition of productivity which I have stated earlier but will restate here. As stated in "Loving Life," productivity is "the process of creating material values, whether goods or services."

That is horrible

No, rest here is defined as sleep. And during that time, there is no creation of material value. For you to make your argument, you would have to argue that in all instances of sleep a material value is produced. So I ask you, exactly what material value is produced by sleep?

I was wondering, what are your thoughts on enlightenment? Real? Fake? Achievable? Have you had any enlightening experiences? I am referring to the concept of enlightenment in any tradition, such as Buddhism, or Yoga.

No, rest may be vital for productivity, but it is not the same thing as productivity, by definition.

My bad, I was tired when I wrote my original post. I didn't mean living as a parasite permanently. But would it be wrong to be a "parasite" by say, living temporarily at your friends house while you get back on your feet? Or is this not an instance of taking the undeserved due to the friendship? So essentially what I am asking is, is it okay to get help from someone temporarily?

Well, I was flipping through a book by Craig Biddle called "Loving Life" which is has a lot of basic Objectivist morality in it and found the right definition for productivity: "the process of creating material values, whether goods or services." Therefore, relaxation is NOT being productive. Case closed!