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Tenderlysharp

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Everything posted by Tenderlysharp

  1. Objectivists do have a problem accepting subjectivism in any cognitive function. When Ayn Rand writes about having to treat music subjectively it can't be taken out of the context of the 15 pages of objective analysis on music, nor out of the context of her entire approach to existence. It has to be treated subjectively until there is a conceptual language for it, which she believed was possible only after an immense amount of physiological and psychological research. Saying that Non-Objective art is just as subjective as Ayn Rand's taste in music is different than saying Non-objective art may have a "not yet defined" objective base similar to that of music. If you read Atlas Shrugged, you did see it, but you didn't understand it. This is why I brought up projection in my post: http://forum.objecti...60 In order to differentiate what man projects onto the work, from what the work Objectively shows.
  2. Because they take time to think about and time to answer, which I am attempting to do, while at the same time I am trying to understand what exactly you are missing. Why are you avoiding the substance of my comments?
  3. I think the people one would say have no 'talent' stop at a certain point, they are more easily satisfied, or more easily discouraged by the work they produce. The biographical information on many of the artists I have loved seems to show a sense that they are never fully satisfied, each masterpiece must be followed by something even better. Very often their parents were creative people who encouraged them from a young age to pursue their art. The complexity it takes to form speech and writing is so immense that it seems that a being who can do it would be able to achieve almost anything. I have heard the average person uses 5-10% of their brain power. It would be interesting to develop strategies that tap into a greater human potential. I think volition is a major key to it. I have a tendency to be overly optimistic.
  4. The first works of many great artists were probably nothing like their masterpieces. Great art requires an enormous investment of effort into developing the craft. I have witnessed too many budding artists with potential quit before they found out what they were capable of, because of a premature expectation of proof of talent. A kind of determinism that doesn't allow for the process of development. I don't want to eliminate talent from the equasion, but I would like to see it measured after some effort has been made.
  5. Freedom of speech allows Subjectivists to call anything they want art. Objectivists will not stop you or censor you from claiming that Non-Objective Art is Art, but why do you expect them to agree with you? Why is it so important to come to an Objectivist forum and tell Objectivists that their objective criteria for art is subjective, when you don't seem to fully understand the objective elements they are basing their perspective on? If you did fully understand you might present Modern art in a more objective way rather than trying to impose subjectivity onto it. You say art is subjective. Why? Because abstract art makes you feel what John Gault made Ayn Rand feel? But, does abstract art mean what John Gault means? Why is Ayn Rand's appraisal of certain types of Music, certain types of Dance, certain types of Architecture, certain types of Writing, certain types of Painting, certain types of Sculpture, higher than her appraisal of non-objective art?
  6. “Volition” is essential in understanding Objectivism. Determinism is a force that is outside the control of a Man. He can generate a volitional determination, but that is not the same thing as being determined by fate. Whether for good or bad determinism takes the choice away from the man. Volition and Determinism are not compatible. At any point a man must be free to choose because man's consciousness is volitional.
  7. http://www.smbc-comics.com/?db=comics&id=1472#comic http://www.smbc-comics.com/?db=comics&id=2100#comic http://www.smbc-comics.com/?db=comics&id=1451#comic
  8. http://www.smbc-comics.com/?db=comics&id=58#comic
  9. http://www.venganza.org/about/
  10. http://xkcd.com/386/ http://www.smbc-comi...s&id=1498#comic http://www.pbfcomics...y_the_Bunny.jpg The technical mastery of these comics are not particularly impressive, but their messages can be quite consciousness confirming. Would you classify these as art?
  11. Context is very important in Objectivism. What does a man need to survive? Food is to keep the body alive. Property rights, virtue, morality are to keep the mind alive. Either choice is a sacrifice: body without mind/mind without body. Which sacrifice is greater would depend on the individual, and whether he could see any possible chance for a future where his body and mind could both survive. Retaliation is the logical outcome of theft, you put yourself in danger by stealing. The statist would be catering to parasites and looters, and treating man as though he is incapable of thinking for himself. Is it impossible for a politician to gain a sense of self respect or discerning power to weigh the consequences of his actions on all of the people he loves or values. A major factor of Objectivism is hero worship. The bodies of Homosapiens have survived for 200,000 years, but Aristotle was the first “Rational Man”, “Rational” Self-interest is what Objectivism advocates. If one is to live as a “Rational Man” one must understand what conditions are necessary for a “Rational Man” to live. The first question to ask is “Does man need a rational set of values to live by?” Your answer seems to be no.
  12. Freedom of speech is the only way to respect disagreement. I would never force someone to agree with me. Anarchism is a mess of contradictions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism , I wouldn't want to be associated with it.
  13. How many Objectivists disagree to the point of questioning their status as an Objectivist, and later come to an understanding that lets them claim that they are an Objectivist once again?
  14. In a Donahue interview with Ayn Rand she actually seemed eager to find an adversary who was worthy of debate, she was willing to change her mind in light of a rational argument, but she claimed none of her antagonists would fight her on the issues. If at any time there is a clash between rationality and Objectivism, rationality is the only logical answer, and that rationality will then become a part of Objectivism. George H. Smith claims to not want to allow government use of force. Ayn Rand says the government can only use force in retaliation against those who have used force. A lack of Self defense would contradict rationality. Can you see where the right for everyone to take retaliation into their own hands would quickly disintegrate society into gang warfare? More interesting questions would be “What percentage of people exposed to Objectivist ideas come to a fully integrated understanding of Objectivism?” How do you measure the number of people who leave Objectivism who were never really Objectivists to begin with? How do you measure the number of people who believe they are Objectivists, but who actually misrepresent the philosophy, and end up driving the curious away? How do you measure the number of people who are posing as Objectivists who secretly want to misrepresent the philosophy? What are the primary tenants of Objectivism that are incontrovertible? What things has Ayn Rand said that are open to debate?
  15. If someone had a rational reason to leave Objectivism, then Objectivism would no longer be a philosophy based on reason or rationality. If that person could present their reason and rationality in a convincing argument, it's rationality would convince all other rational Objectivists of its truth, and Objectivism would evolve.
  16. What are some of the actions and attributes of Visual art? Color Theory: http://en.wikipedia....ki/Color_theory A sense of 3D space on a 2D surface. Warm Colors move forward, Cold Colors move backward Intense colors move forward, Muted colors move backward High contrast moves forward, Shades of Gray move backward. Light Moves forward, shadow moves backward. Tension can be created in the work when these elements are juxtaposed. Medium Composition Design Use of line Shape Texture Weight Density Balance Use of light Negative space The usual motion of the eye across a canvas, and the ways the eye can be directed through the work.
  17. Since this is a visual art forum it would be better to focus more on Visual Art. But, the study of all art can enhance the others, so I don't want to exclude any other art, if what is said can also be applied to visual art.
  18. Many of the non-artists I have known think that artistic skill is something a person is just born with. I like to challenge that notion. Anyone can be an artist if they understand what art is, learn what it takes to become an artist, and follow through on setting and achieving their goals. Art is a skill to be developed like any other skill. I would like this thread to be a depository of information about the development of an artist. What Art books have you found that helped expand your artistic ability? Have you known any art teachers who were exceptional in their approach to their job? Who were they, where did they work, what was their approach? Do you know of any online resources that fuel artistic development? What are some the ways you have found to fuel your energy to create? How have you overcome artistic stagnation? What elements are most important for a strong foundation in art?
  19. I should have said Artists rather than Objectivists, or anyone with a vested interest in understanding all of the ways visual media can affect them.
  20. Approaching Objectivism as though it is out to suppress joy in art is not a productive path to take on either side of an argument. An Objectivist values feeling, he just wants you to know where your feeling is coming from.
  21. In regard to the Luc Travers video and the painting of Joan of Arc by Jules Bastien-Lepage I don't see the three figures as angels, I think of them as driving forces in her own consciousness; her grief, her longing for goodness, and her longing for retribution. They are attached to the home she wishes to defend. Maybe she invented the story about the Angels to justify her volitional choice to move forward with a plan that she knew could lead to being burned at the stake, but her convictions were worth that risk.
  22. In order to create art, I do think of recognizing attributes and actions of art as part of the development of a visual language. Some Objectivists do themselves a disservice by avoiding or discarding the contemplation of attributes and actions of art.
  23. The nature of determinism insinuates that man has no choice in the matter, determinism is a contradiction of volition, whether it is determined to be good or bad. Determinism marginalizes mans consciousness. Consciousness is the “non-essential' you seem to be missing. If a Naturalist work has acts of volition in it, it is a Naturalist work with hints of Romanticism. In determinism why would a hero have to make any effort of his own if he is already determined by fate to accomplish great things? If one has a foundation in objective thinking he can learn more about consciousness than he could if he approached it from a purely Subjectivist perspective. Subjectivism dismisses other viewpoints, by saying lets agree to disagree. Objectivism is an attempt to come to as universal an understanding as possible about a topic. An intense focus in Man's consciousness is inherent in the creation, utilization and contemplation of the Architecture, and Music that Rand liked.
  24. When millions of dollars are generated for communist organizations in the name of these artists the threat becomes more clear. It becomes necessary to understand the intentions of the artist who's work you are buying if you would like to avoid fueling your own destroyers. Still, aside from their personal views, I find value in studying their exploration of attributes, actions, and composition. “Isn't proof against” is a double negative. How about proving that the exploration of visual art techniques, attributes, and actions can and do rationally integrate with man's consciousness. I perceive in certain works of Cubism the expression of time, movement, and the moment of deciding to make a volitional choice between many options, it interests me in my own work. It can visually symbolize the concentration of percepts into concepts with wider and wider abstractions. It also symbolizes the time saving advantages of multi-tasking. The disintegration comes into effect in particular works that make the entities involved appear at odds with the circumstance they are in. Disintegration also comes into effect when the artist used mind destroying chemicals to induce a state of disconnection with reality and then tried to translate that to the canvas. In these cases the intention of the artist is important in the analysis of the work.
  25. “or whatever” seems to be a marginalization of the value of consciousness, which is exactly what Ayn Rand claimed that non-Objective art was attempting to do.
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