JRoberts

I would caution you against looking too far into Eastern Philosophy as of yet-especially something such as the Tao. Eastern Philosophy is, from it's metaphysics down, based upon a mystical, illogical world. While some of their 'tools' may seem appealing to you (ie. meditation, focus, awareness), the philosophy itself is not of much use. The small bits of truth you will find can also be found in Western Philosophy, and in a much greater degree.

Read the articles from the links that Betsy provided

Hello Oakes, If you decided that you did not like the ending of, oh, the Odyssey, would you demand that it be an 'open' book and change the ending?

For the majority of Native Americans, yes it was fine to engage in 'war' with them. This has to do with the fact that it was within their nature to be war-like. They had no concept of private property, and would constantly fight eachother in bloody battles to take it. Thus there was nothing wrong in us fighting them off and bringing peace and stability to the land. There were a few instances where we made some mistakes-these being when we would attack the very few peaceful Native Americans.

Where did I say murder? I said forced out. Now, killing socialist/communist/etc. in other countries is fine-meaning, declaring war on these countries is fine. That is why it is not wrong of us to declare war on Iraq-or why it wouldn't be wrong for us to nuke Tehran. The Native American people and the government they set up for themselves had no concept of these rights-the colonist did, and in fact were very advanced. Read up on your history, especially things such as the Virginia Company.

There is a book I recently loaned out by a long-gone wise man written in an Objectivist mentality that actually talks about this. The man said that people get enjoyment out of animals because they respond to you as a person. For example, you get home from work and your dog runs up to greet you, his tail wagging, a big 'grin' on his face, licking your hand, etc. You pet him and he responds to you. You play with him and he plays back. You want to sit and watch a movie and he snuggles up with you. The animal reponds to you as a person, which is why it makes you so happy-why you are so close to it. Other animals, like your..hamster is it?...are more for a scientific/curiosity within people. "Oh mommy look at that snake! Watch it move around!" kind of thing. One gains enjoyment from watching life in and of itself-watching it exist, struggle, etc.

Spano, The Native Americans had no concept of individual rights, or property rights-saying themselves that you can not own the land. Thus there is no conflict. The Native Americans did not have rights, which is why they were forced out.

I was not speaking about that in particular, but about her comment in the 25th. Aniv. Introduction, which I thought that I should add, "Philosophically, Nietzsche is a mystic and an irrationalist. His metaphysics consists of a somewhat "Byronic" and mystically "malevolent" universe..." Introduction, The Fountainhead-pg. x However, she did admire, "...he projects at times (not consistently) a magnificent feeling for man's greatness, expressed in emotional, not intellectual terms." Introduction, The Fountainhead-pg. x When EC said, "...admired his sense of life...", I took it to mean a sum of Nietzsche's sense of life, which is as I said-dark, pessimistic, and nihilistic. I drew a difference between her admiration of his emotion in regards to mankinds greatness and between his sense of life.

"but I believe she admired his sense-of-life. " -Evangelical Capitalist Nope. His sense-of-life was very dark, pessimistic, and all in all nihilistic.

I think that your biggest problem is that you seem to be looking for the giant "leap". This is a religious way of looking at things. Example: " And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light."-Genesis 1:3 "Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so."-Genesis 1:11 "And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. "-Genesis 1:20-21 A lot of people in today's time grow up with this attitude that things just 'happened' instantly-ie. you have nothing, then a giant fish, then a man. It is the same way-of-thought that brings up the "missing link" argument (man couldn't have come from apes because there is not a link between the two in the fossil record). I think that reading all of these posts, while increasing what you KNOW, will not aid in your understanding and grasping of it-as you have hinted at. This is because your mode of thinking is incorrect. This means that you should begin by asking yourself questions such as: "Is reality real? Or is there another supernatural realm?" "If reality is real, then am I experiencing it in a true form (ie. are my sense lying?)" "If I can trust my senses and what it tells me of reality, can I then look at reality as natural (meaning that everything in the entire universe, being free from supernatural grips, IS real, and has a nature)?" If you begin thinking in the terms that everything is natural, you will understand that giant leaps (miracles) are not possible. Do you go out and buy some flour and then *POOF* you have bread? No. You must mix certain ingredients in a certain way-then you must kneed it a certain way-let it sit out for a certain amount of time-bake it for a certain amount of time-before you have the product (bread).

I was curious to know why you do not believe in Black Holes, and what you think exists in the areas currently considered to be Black Holes.

Argive-in response to your comments about sex and pornography, I suggest you read in AS about the nature of sex. It is also cut out nicely for you in FTNI. Once you have read that, apply it to your belief system.

I personally love Walt Whitman simply because of the sense of life that radiates from much of his poetry. I cut this QA that I have from him to show you all what I mean: And as to the poetry, one of my favorites by his is (it's a bit long but WORTH it ) : "Song of the Exposition" 1 AFTER all, not to create only, or found only, But to bring, perhaps from afar, what is already founded, To give it our own identity, average, limitless, free; To fill the gross, the torpid bulk with vital religious fire; Not to repel or destroy, so much as accept, fuse, rehabilitate; 5 To obey, as well as command—to follow, more than to lead; These also are the lessons of our New World; —While how little the New, after all—how much the Old, Old World! Long, long, long, has the grass been growing, Long and long has the rain been falling, 10 Long has the globe been rolling round. 2 Come, Muse, migrate from Greece and Ionia; Cross out, please, those immensely overpaid accounts, That matter of Troy, and Achilles’ wrath, and Eneas’, Odysseus’ wanderings; Placard “Removed” and “To Let” on the rocks of your snowy Parnassus; 15 Repeat at Jerusalem—place the notice high on Jaffa’s gate, and on Mount Moriah; The same on the walls of your Gothic European Cathedrals, and German, French and Spanish Castles; For know a better, fresher, busier sphere—a wide, untried domain awaits, demands you. 3 Responsive to our summons, Or rather to her long-nurs’d inclination, 20 Join’d with an irresistible, natural gravitation, She comes! this famous Female—as was indeed to be expected; (For who, so-ever youthful, ’cute and handsome, would wish to stay in mansions such as those, When offer’d quarters with all the modern improvements, With all the fun that ’s going—and all the best society?) 25 She comes! I hear the rustling of her gown; I scent the odor of her breath’s delicious fragrance; I mark her step divine—her curious eyes a-turning, rolling, Upon this very scene. The Dame of Dames! can I believe, then, 30 Those ancient temples classic, and castles strong and feudalistic, could none of them restrain her? Nor shades of Virgil and Dante—nor myriad memories, poems, old associations, magnetize and hold on to her? But that she ’s left them all—and here? Yes, if you will allow me to say so, 35 I, my friends, if you do not, can plainly see Her, The same Undying Soul of Earth’s, activity’s, beauty’s, heroism’s Expression, Out from her evolutions hither come—submerged the strata of her former themes, Hidden and cover’d by to-day’s—foundation of to-day’s; Ended, deceas’d, through time, her voice by Castaly’s fountain; 40 Silent through time the broken-lipp’d Sphynx in Egypt—silent those century-baffling tombs; Closed for aye the epics of Asia’s, Europe’s helmeted warriors; Calliope’s call for ever closed—Clio, Melpomene, Thalia closed and dead; Seal’d the stately rhythmus of Una and Oriana—ended the quest of the Holy Graal; Jerusalem a handful of ashes blown by the wind—extinct; 45 The Crusaders’ streams of shadowy, midnight troops, sped with the sunrise; Amadis, Tancred, utterly gone—Charlemagne, Roland, Oliver gone, Palmerin, ogre, departed—vanish’d the turrets that Usk reflected, Arthur vanish’d with all his knights—Merlin and Lancelot and Galahad—all gone—dissolv’d utterly, like an exhalation; Pass’d! pass’d! for us, for ever pass’d! that once so mighty World—now void, inanimate, phantom World! 50 Embroider’d, dazzling World! with all its gorgeous legends, myths, Its kings and barons proud—its priests, and warlike lords, and courtly dames; Pass’d to its charnel vault—laid on the shelf—coffin’d, with Crown and Armor on, Blazon’d with Shakspeare’s purple page, And dirged by Tennyson’s sweet sad rhyme. 55 I say I see, my friends, if you do not, the Animus of all that World, Escaped, bequeath’d, vital, fugacious as ever, leaving those dead remains, and now this spot approaching, filling; —And I can hear what maybe you do not—a terrible aesthetical commotion, With howling, desperate gulp of “flower” and “bower,” With “Sonnet to Matilda’s Eyebrow” quite, quite frantic; 60 With gushing, sentimental reading circles turn’d to ice or stone; With many a squeak, (in metre choice,) from Boston, New York, Philadelphia, London; As she, the illustrious Emigré, (having, it is true, in her day, although the same, changed, journey’d considerable,) Making directly for this rendezvous—vigorously clearing a path for herself—striding through the confusion, By thud of machinery and shrill steam-whistle undismay’d, 65 Bluff’d not a bit by drain-pipe, gasometers, artificial fertilizers, Smiling and pleased, with palpable intent to stay, She ’s here, install’d amid the kitchen ware! 4 But hold—don’t I forget my manners? To introduce the Stranger (what else indeed have I come for?) to thee, Columbia: 70 In Liberty’s name, welcome, Immortal! clasp hands, And ever henceforth Sisters dear be both. Fear not, O Muse! truly new ways and days receive, surround you, (I candidly confess, a queer, queer race, of novel fashion,) And yet the same old human race—the same within, without, 75 Faces and hearts the same—feelings the same—yearnings the same, The same old love—beauty and use the same. 5 We do not blame thee, Elder World—nor separate ourselves from thee: (Would the Son separate himself from the Father?) Looking back on thee—seeing thee to thy duties, grandeurs, through past ages bending, building, 80 We build to ours to-day. Mightier than Egypt’s tombs, Fairer than Grecia’s, Roma’s temples, Prouder than Milan’s statued, spired Cathedral, More picturesque than Rhenish castle-keeps, 85 We plan, even now, to raise, beyond them all, Thy great Cathedral, sacred Industry—no tomb, A Keep for life for practical Invention. As in a waking vision, E’en while I chant, I see it rise—I scan and prophesy outside and in, 90 Its manifold ensemble. 6 Around a Palace, Loftier, fairer, ampler than any yet, Earth’s modern Wonder, History’s Seven outstripping, High rising tier on tier, with glass and iron façades. 95 Gladdening the sun and sky—enhued in cheerfulest hues, Bronze, lilac, robin’s-egg, marine and crimson, Over whose golden roof shall flaunt, beneath thy banner, Freedom, The banners of The States, the flags of every land, A brood of lofty, fair, but lesser Palaces shall cluster. 100 Somewhere within the walls of all, Shall all that forwards perfect human life be started, Tried, taught, advanced, visibly exhibited. Here shall you trace in flowing operation, In every state of practical, busy movement, 105 The rills of Civilization. Materials here, under your eye, shall change their shape, as if by magic; The cotton shall be pick’d almost in the very field, Shall be dried, clean’d, ginn’d, baled, spun into thread and cloth, before you: You shall see hands at work at all the old processes, and all the new ones; 110 You shall see the various grains, and how flour is made, and then bread baked by the bakers; You shall see the crude ores of California and Nevada passing on and on till they become bullion; You shall watch how the printer sets type, and learn what a composing stick is; You shall mark, in amazement, the Hoe press whirling its cylinders, shedding the printed leaves steady and fast: The photograph, model, watch, pin, nail, shall be created before you. 115 In large calm halls, a stately Museum shall teach you the infinite, solemn lessons of Minerals; In another, woods, plants, Vegetation shall be illustrated—in another Animals, animal life and development. One stately house shall be the Music House; Others for other Arts—Learning, the Sciences, shall all be here; None shall be slighted—none but shall here be honor’d, help’d, exampled. 120 7 This, this and these, America, shall be your Pyramids and Obelisks, Your Alexandrian Pharos, gardens of Babylon, Your temple at Olympia. The male and female many laboring not, Shall ever here confront the laboring many, 125 With precious benefits to both—glory to all, To thee, America—and thee, Eternal Muse. And here shall ye inhabit, Powerful Matrons! In your vast state, vaster than all the old; Echoed through long, long centuries to come, 130 To sound of different, prouder songs, with stronger themes, Practical, peaceful life—the people’s life—the People themselves, Lifted, illumin’d, bathed in peace—elate, secure in peace. 8 Away with themes of war! away with War itself! Hence from my shuddering sight, to never more return, that show of blacken’d, mutilated corpses! 135 That hell unpent, and raid of blood—fit for wild tigers, or for lop-tongued wolves—not reasoning men! And in its stead speed Industry’s campaigns! With thy undaunted armies, Engineering! Thy pennants, Labor, loosen’d to the breeze! Thy bugles sounding loud and clear! 140 Away with old romance! Away with novels, plots, and plays of foreign courts! Away with love-verses, sugar’d in rhyme—the intrigues, amours of idlers, Fitted for only banquets of the night, where dancers to late music slide; The unhealthy pleasures, extravagant dissipations of the few, 145 With perfumes, heat and wine, beneath the dazzling chandeliers. 9 To you, ye Reverent, sane Sisters, To this resplendent day, the present scene, These eyes and ears that like some broad parterre bloom up around, before me, I raise a voice for far superber themes for poets and for Art, 150 To exalt the present and the real, To teach the average man the glory of his daily walk and trade, To sing, in songs, how exercise and chemical life are never to be baffled; Boldly to thee, America, to-day! and thee, Immortal Muse! To practical, manual work, for each and all—to plough, hoe, dig, 155 To plant and tend the tree, the berry, the vegetables, flowers, For every man to see to it that he really do something—for every woman too; To use the hammer, and the saw, (rip or cross-cut,) To cultivate a turn for carpentering, plastering, painting, To work as tailor, tailoress, nurse, hostler, porter, 160 To invent a little—something ingenious—to aid the washing, cooking, cleaning, And hold it no disgrace to take a hand at them themselves. I say I bring thee, Muse, to-day and here, All occupations, duties broad and close, Toil, healthy toil and sweat, endless, without cessation, 165 The old, old general burdens, interests, joys, The family, parentage, childhood, husband and wife, The house-comforts—the house itself, and all its belongings, Food and its preservations—chemistry applied to it; Whatever forms the average, strong, complete, sweet-blooded Man or Woman—the perfect, longeve Personality, 170 And helps its present life to health and happiness—and shapes its Soul, For the eternal Real Life to come. With latest materials, works, Steam-power, the great Express lines, gas, petroleum, These triumphs of our time, the Atlantic’s delicate cable, 175 The Pacific Railroad, the Suez canal, the Mont Cenis tunnel; Science advanced, in grandeur and reality, analyzing every thing, This world all spann’d with iron rails—with lines of steamships threading every sea, Our own Rondure, the current globe I bring. 180 10 And thou, high-towering One—America! Thy swarm of offspring towering high—yet higher thee, above all towering, With Victory on thy left, and at thy right hand Law; Thou Union, holding all—fusing, absorbing, tolerating all, Thee, ever thee, I bring. 185 Thou—also thou, a world! With all thy wide geographies, manifold, different, distant, Rounding by thee in One—one common orbic language, One common indivisible destiny and Union. 11 And by the spells which ye vouchsafe, 190 To those, your ministers in earnest, I here personify and call my themes, To make them pass before ye. Behold, America! (And thou, ineffable Guest and Sister!) For thee come trooping up thy waters and thy lands: 195 Behold! thy fields and farms, thy far-off woods and mountains, As in procession coming. Behold! the sea itself! And on its limitless, heaving breast, thy ships: See! where their white sails, bellying in the wind, speckle the green and blue! 200 See! thy steamers coming and going, steaming in or out of port! See! dusky and undulating, their long pennants of smoke! Behold, in Oregon, far in the north and west, Or in Maine, far in the north and east, thy cheerful axemen, Wielding all day their axes! 205 Behold, on the lakes, thy pilots at their wheels—thy oarsmen! Behold how the ash writhes under those muscular arms! There by the furnace, and there by the anvil, Behold thy sturdy blacksmiths, swinging their sledges; Overhand so steady—overhand they turn and fall, with joyous clank, 210 Like a tumult of laughter. Behold! (for still the procession moves,) Behold, Mother of All, thy countless sailors, boatmen, coasters! The myriads of thy young and old mechanics! Mark—mark the spirit of invention everywhere—thy rapid patents, 215 Thy continual workshops, foundries, risen or rising; See, from their chimneys, how the tall flame-fires stream! Mark, thy interminable farms, North, South, Thy wealthy Daughter-States, Eastern, and Western, The varied products of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Missouri, Georgia, Texas, and the rest; 220 Thy limitless crops—grass, wheat, sugar, corn, rice, hemp, hops, Thy barns all fill’d—thy endless freight-trains, and thy bulging store-houses, The grapes that ripen on thy vines—the apples in thy orchards, Thy incalculable lumber, beef, pork, potatoes—thy coal—thy gold and silver, The inexhaustible iron in thy mines. 225 12 All thine, O sacred Union! Ship, farm, shop, barns, factories, mines, City and State—North, South, item and aggregate, We dedicate, dread Mother, all to thee! Protectress absolute, thou! Bulwark of all! 230 For well we know that while thou givest each and all, (generous as God,) Without thee, neither all nor each, nor land, home, Ship, nor mine—nor any here, this day, secure, Nor aught, nor any day secure. 13 And thou, thy Emblem, waving over all! 235 Delicate beauty! a word to thee, (it may be salutary;) Remember, thou hast not always been, as here to-day, so comfortably ensovereign’d; In other scenes than these have I observ’d thee, flag; Not quite so trim and whole, and freshly blooming, in folds of stainless silk; But I have seen thee, bunting, to tatters torn, upon thy splinter’d staff, 240 Or clutch’d to some young color-bearer’s breast, with desperate hands, Savagely struggled for, for life or death—fought over long, ’Mid cannon’s thunder-crash, and many a curse, and groan and yell—and rifle-volleys cracking sharp, And moving masses, as wild demons surging—and lives as nothing risk’d, For thy mere remnant, grimed with dirt and smoke, and sopp’d in blood; 245 For sake of that, my beauty—and that thou might’st dally, as now, secure up there, Many a good man have I seen go under. 14 Now here, and these, and hence, in peace all thine, O Flag! And here, and hence, for thee, O universal Muse! and thou for them! And here and hence, O Union, all the work and workmen thine! 250 The poets, women, sailors, soldiers, farmers, miners, students thine! None separate from Thee—henceforth one only, we and Thou; (For the blood of the children—what is it only the blood Maternal? And lives and works—what are they all at last except the roads to Faith and Death?) While we rehearse our measureless wealth, it is for thee, dear Mother! 255 We own it all and several to-day indissoluble in Thee; —Think not our chant, our show, merely for products gross, or lucre—it is for Thee, the Soul, electric, spiritual! Our farms, inventions, crops, we own in Thee! Cities and States in Thee! Our freedom all in Thee! our very lives in Thee!

You can admire/like the things that people do, or the way people did things-without admiring their reasoning behind it, or the philosophy behind it. For example, I admire many of the martial arts for being a very rational use of the body as a fighting force (in the sense of using ever muscle, judging every position, responding, etc.). However, the philosophy behind most of it goes against my own beliefs. That's why I can take the tools and modify them to my philosophy-or admire the tools without the philosophy.

Google Toolbar also has a program you can get for it that is very similar. My computer is being used to analyze Protein Strains

Thank you Ash Ryan for adding context to history.

Nature Shot (note the tree amids the yellow ) http://www.sxc.hu/browse.phtml?f=view&id=129326

The man, Walt Disney, stated: I add these not to discuss as much Walt Disney as hero or not. I actually want to discuss how the ideas in these quotes correlate with the spirit of Disney...and what made possible things such as The Lion King, Beauty and the Best, The Little Mermaid, etc. What are your guys thoughts on the true Disney-up to The Lion King?

Once again tonight, I must thank you for clarifying things for me and increasing my understanding.

I understand now. Thank you

I do not understand how this is so. Would you please explain?

I now understand, and agree with, your first point. As to the second-are you saying that the moment risk is involved, it is not immoral?

I would also like to point out that just because I agree with the RIGHT to abortion, does not mean that I have to like it-or choose it. I personally do not like abortion, and would much rather choose contraceptives. However, I still agree that people have the right to choose an abortion or not. It reminds me of a quote... "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire

Stephen, I am confused about your answer. You are saying then that one should, if they analyze the situation at hand and see it is safe-help the person? If this is so-then where is the stopping point? For example-somebody is hanging off the edge of a cliff...and there it is a pretty stable cliff ledge-however, you will have to bend over to help them, which has a risk of you falling-should you then as well?

There is no moral "ought" to help another person, period. If you desire to help that person then you are free to do so.