volco

you want someone to reply in Galt's Gulch , but the real question is, do you believe in demi-Gods or do you consider that Rand used the Greek concept as a metaphor?

and Ayn Rand knew that (she stated how much he did try to prove the existence of God) my point however was that for something extraordinary to take place in pre industrial society, it had to be under the aegis of either war or god. I'm starting to think it's not much different now - which is of course an entirely different subject

and yes, indeed forced conversion. What do you believe happened in Jesuit concentration camps (reducciones, or misiones) from California to what is now Brazil (but wasn't then). what is that good old adage attributed to the Jesuits?...give me a child for the first five years of his life and.....

yeah but Europe experienced the Reformation. Even countries where the Counter Reformation was fully successful (like France and Italy) in driving the reformers to the stake, the mountains or the New World, the ideas of the Papal FALIBILITY and personal salvation took hold. Notice that Spain and Portugal were the only Western European lands not to experience even the tinniest bit of counter-Catholicism and notice how both countries slacked up -?correct term?-, remained back warded into the 20th century. By less entrepreneurial notice that I placed nice " " around it and of course I meant it collectively. and no, the "apparition" of the "virgin" of Guadalupe only gave rise to a sinking cathedral and a pretty awful concrete structure to replace it. Why would Peruvians or Bolivians or specially Paraguayans would be equally if not a lot more religiously Catholic than the Mexicans then?

fair enough

That makes sense, and no a "reversal of roles" (or for that matter a going back in time) is not possible - except the latter and by cataclysm which is not a good thing. So general questions regarding this topic 1) What about Ray Kurzweil's predictions of exponential technological growth. He began in the 80s and the predictions are proving consistently correct. Within all the many ramifications we find ephemerization (a neologism by Buck Fuller). This would explain the continuing success of San Francisco bay area and the continuing decay of the Rust Belt at the same time. But what will happen with that tension? 2) What about the opposite of Ray? Dmitry Orlov who predicts not total but momentary social collapse in America by drawing fastidiously correct parallels with the Soviet Union?

well, see now how ignorant I am about the situation?

there's context within Atlas Shrugged itself. Dagny shot a guard dead in order to sneak into the institute and save Galt from further torture. Her explanation/justification of how easy/fast she shot that guard was that the guard could not decide for himself whether to let her pass or not. so there, an example from the same source (not the bible, LOL!)

I'm quiet sincere in my curiosity as to why you call - I'm still assuming- Mexicans Communistic, and I'm also very honestly interested as to why you find their mixed ethnicity relevant. For all we know, biologically, mixed genes means hybrid vigor, but that doesn't seem what you implied. I haven't met too many Mexicans but indeed many mestizos, and I believe it is their 400 year old Catholic indoctrination, not their genes, that make them "less entrepreneurial" than say, Europeans or Asians. But indeed I have not made up my mind about what role genetics and therefore ethnicity plays in personal outcome.

why would that be a good thing in contrast of America being a creator of products to manufacture elsewhere, and importer of those products invented at home?

So can't you tell me more about the communistic mestizo invasion, I'm rather curious about a local's take on it

No, I want to have a discussion (mainly obtain feedback) about Celia Green. In this occasion about her take on sanity. HER quote (from the book of the same name) is the one I wanted you to address. Do you care to?

--- My take is rather cold and objective as I am not an American citizen or resident. I reside in the other end of the Americas and am a citizen of certain European country. But here you go, What you call invasion is actually a normal phenomenon. When a population dwindles and decays, another takes its place and such is the case of the many immigrants. I am assuming (strictly by your demeanor and avatar picture) that by "communistic Mestizo" you mean Mexican regardless of ethnicity or ideology. Mexicans (along with Canadians which don't count in this discussion) are the only ones who have the special distinction of being a mixture of two complicated groups in American dynamics; immigrants and native americans. It is so itchy a subject because the existence of the Mexican identity (a mixture of indeed immigrant conquistadores and Catholiced-by-force native american population) cancels out the existence of the American Nation identity, and vice versa. this is long and fresh ground for many misunderstandings. All immigrants except Mexicans have to either sail or fly into a new continent, the New World. Certain magical aura comes with it. And yet Mexico is the most powerful country of Hispanic America with interesting projected growth. I could go on until you are inevitably banned, but do you really wanna continue this conversation

please tell us more about the "communistic Mestizo invasion"

It sounds cliche not melodramatic and I mean it in a sympathetic way. I don't believe there's anything unnatural in the way you feel. The stage between sleep and wake is a window that allows us to see our mind more "integrally" or in another "whole" way (as we can glimpse BOTH our states of mind while dreaming and while being awake, almost at the same time). That is why awakening and going to sleep are the phases where most normal typical psychological troubles become obviously evident (like people who have trouble going to sleep). you say of that time when you awake to a new day (after spending hours digesting thoughts in very different cosmos within your mind) but there IS reason for feeling something both special and intense. There is no reason however to feel neutral, that would be a feat to accomplish. you have every valid reason to feel angst during that time (expressed in either emptiness, or mild depression, whatever). I've found myself in that situation a lot. The only exceptions don't occur naturally or by default, they occur when I purposefully set something that I really want to wake up to. For instance if when I wake up I know I'm at the beach and that the ocean expects me, I just feel joy. (for others might be the arms of a lover). But that's ideal. Another way is to wake up wanting do something you really love doing, something you had to give up the night before due to physical stress (sleep). By doing what you like, I specifically mean the absorbing state of mind best described by Mihaly Csiksentmihalyi as "flow" . That seems to me the best most productive and satisfying way to avoid dealing with the infinite existential questions that pervade a semi intelligent mind on a daily basis. other popular but less satisfying ways to evade the full scope of reality include earning a living for the sake of it, raising a family (for the sake of it), drinking and doing drugs. Flow occurs naturally so it might be hard to achieve if you're conscious about trying to achieve it (in the same way that sometimes when you don't remember something, you know you will eventually remember it if you stop thinking about it) . So maybe a way to begin your daily routine of achieving flow might be doing something that mildly engages you increasing difficulty gradually. Maybe you already achieve flow and you still the same way on the mornings. Psychology is surely not clear cut, no "science" called study of the soul can be.

you should run for office!

Should you not make anything of the above quote , at least would you care to offer a different, your own, or borrowed, definition of sanity?

According to Ayn Rand admirer, psychologist Celia Green, If I had to bluntly assign those broad characteristics to two groups in relation to Objectivism I'd describe the ones who do think about what they don't yet understand as the creators, and those pathologically interested in other people as the altruists (by def.) and the second handlers. But that's me, what do you make of the above quote?

No, I'm simply extending the same courtesy to an interesting and foreign culture that they extend to us while admiring St Peter's Basilica or if able, la Divina Commedia. Religion was pervasive during most of the genesis of our culture (industrialization is only a couple centuries old) and thus all the good of those times are always under the aegis of organized spirituality, whether in Italy or in Japan. btw Ayn Rand admired Thomas Aquinas as it was plainly obvious to her (because of some historical understanding) that if an intellectual was to write in those days HE had to be a member of the church. I was talking about Japanese culture, and specifically aesthetics, not all encompassing philosophy. Furthermore the point of this thread was to find the appropriate place in Objectivist influenced Western* Culture, for other culture's achievements or contributions. At the time I started the thread I was preoccupied with the posibility of East Asians reading and applying Objectivism on a scale as big as in America or at least Europe. Japanese culture is older than 70 or if you count the Meiji era, 160 years, and therefore the concept and resulting beauty of wabi sabi is older as well and affected or explained through spiritual lingo. I find myself stupid having to actually type the above. I find wabi sabi genius simply because it adds value (by rendering more beautiful something rustic, that is requiring little resources). Pretty much like I find it genius the way great Cathedrals were provided with huge windows during the transition from Romanic to Gothic. My liking has to do more with the technical part of it and how it affects the soul (via more light in the case of the cathedral, via being the epitome of subtlein the case of wabi sabi) *I use Western instead of European only not to superficially offend Americans and New Worlders but they'd be more offended if the origins of the term "Western" (Christianity) were more freshly remembered. 1) that was always clear from your nickname and avatar, how could you think it wasn't 2) I actually am very ignorant of Eastern culture and I used an "at hand" decent definition of wabi sabi; yes I also noticed it came from a self help book but I wanted something other than / corroborating wikipedia and king the hill. thanks for your input, more is welcome.

Geopolitics The PDRK is by far more hermitlike than Lybia. It also occupies a unique geostrategic position as a bulwark between the three most important blocks of the World. Just consider its borders To the South they border with South Korea, the American bases, Japan, more American bases, and hence the West in general. To the North and West they border with China, the other big block. And finally to the NE they share a short border with the post-superpower, Russia. They also share a contract from Soviet times in which the people's republic supply slaves to work the Russian Far East logging industry. 90s http://www.independe...ps-1428700.html and a few years ago In the antipodes of North Korea, the World's major political, economic and cultural blocks spread thin until they become unrecognizable in grey regions that switch allegiances (like Brazil, North Korea's aprox geographical antipode). But North Korea itself is like a bulwark that prevents those three clearly defined blocks from touching too close. It serves a purpose. At the expense of 23 million prisoners, it's better to be preoccupied about the clearly defensive nuclear program of a highly disciplined and extremely anachronistic dictatorship, than allow for three actual superpowers (Washington, Beijin and Moskva) to share a triple frontier. The resulting, very high concentration of troops and "missile shields" might seriously disrupt international trade. But by allowing the North to be a fully sovereign country South Korea becomes an artificial island, for all practical purposes as insular as Japan. Korean Politics I don't know much but I do know that Korea, like Taiwan and Japan, are actually Nationalist countries (unlike Canada or Argentina which both state in their Constitutions that their lands are open for the World to immigrate to). The Koreans have to put that in their constitution, but it doesn't mean they have to uphold that - at all. http://en.wikipedia....reans#Fishermen Finally, the Corporations that run South Korea are terrified of a German reunification scenario and would rather see the plus side of the unhappy situation of their divided nation. Rather than spend a lot of energy in a propaganda campaign to create turmoil and blood-spill without a clear expectation of actual change; Korea's Alpha corporation is investing in a different, conciliatory, approach. This is expected to have unexpected consequences by both sides. The South hopes it will foster the liberalization of the North and its transformation in a poor but sovereign country they can exploit without having to carry all of the weight of a failed state. The North fears the same but needs the money and the calories provided by the following experiment in what AR called mixing bread with poison. (Only the South Korean bread is already a little bit poisonous). http://www.hyundai-asan.com/ (kaesong) Plight of the Refugees (and of the ones left behind) It breaks my heart and I have fantasized about different kinds of information bombardment, etc, but let's not forget that there is at least ONE channel that is successful in helping those who make it to China, the most receptive of the three countries that border NK. That channel is the Evangelical Christian churches.

I like Young Galileo the best but he seems to be looking straight into the stone ceiling, not the open skies. Unless I'm missing something of the insinuated architecture.

exploitation of antarctica maybe also, the space can be very cold. it also can be extremely hot.

It's in Atlas Shrugged, Dagny loved her morning coffee and naturally smoked (lots of age specific context. i.e. in The Fountainhead a particularly annoying hostess is described as "she doesn't like women who smoke") Also beer is gulped down by Howard Roark after a hard day's work with his newly found found; other references to casually violating laws of prohibition are found in the beginning of the novel. Dagny and Hank enjoy the mild buzz of the wine (several references) during their one romantic dinner, as well as the evening drink she offers Hank Rearden while living together. However Dagny's brother is found a wreck in his bedroom surrounded by empty bottles of, I believe, Whiskey. So, never forgetting the context in which it was written (post Prohibition pre Dyonisius decade), AS shows (as a very marginal theme) the two facets of Recreational Drugs, in this case alcohol. It can either be used to enhance life enjoyment or (ab)used to evade life altogether (sometimes by the crushing force of external circumstances such as was the end of Leo Kovalenski) Productive-enhancement drugs such as caffeine, nicotine, amphetamines, are also referenced both in her novels as well as in her life. The story says that she quit two of those drugs as soon as she was presented with the evidence of their destructive power, even so, it was a value judgement not a dogmatic conditioning or appeal to authority. Finally, medical drugs (!) like pain killers I believe she wrote about the right to euthanasia as being necessary for the right to life (she wrote that not being allowed to die if one wants to is just as immoral as being forced to die if one wants to live), obviously this extends to quality and length of life being determined by oneself and not society.

that's what I feel when I am moved by religious architecture painting and sculpture. Music is the worse and listening to Bach and Handel makes me temporarily gnostic, maybe theist (much like temporary madness, or la petite morte, ecstasy) and I have a terrible time discriminating the origin of the goosebumps; is it only and just the music or the content of the words of the choral arrangements play a part?

And well conceived advertising is a VERY selective re creation of a product (a minute part of reality) according to a well payed designer's array of value judgments. To a reasonable extent well paid is an objective indicator of quality. For that matter, are cartoons art, not visual art, but post modern theater? Are parades and rallies (including some infamous but very visually striking ones in 1930s Germany) art in the way that "performance-installations" are usually considered art now? What about the religious processions of pre industrial times, and their Christmas Passions? Were they not the only artistic experienced allowed to the bulk of the population much like advertising is under current Western consumerism? The question would be whether either of these are good forms of art.