KevinDW78

There are already two lawsuits filed today challenging validitidy and constitutionality of Prop 8 so let's hope for that. Also, I can't seem to find out if Prop 8 still allows for gay civil unions. This is again, my main reason for voting for Obama, it purely came down to SCOTUS appointments for me on this one issue.

.... You must have me confused with someone else, mammon. We are not saying ANYTHING the same. (I would ask you to give me an example, but we've all seen how you evade, evade, evade, whenever someone puts you on the spot to back up your assertions.)

I would agree, except that they only swing one of two ways (the two established parties). As we saw in this election, which of the two ways they swung was pretty much irrellevent for our cause.

Still hoping for a response here, Mammon.

I am going to be shoring up my personal finances, eliminating all debt (paying off my mortgage outright over the next 5 years), and putting all my savings into buying gold.

I think there is WAY too much Chicken Little "The sky is falling". Some people here act like Obama is going to get sworn in and immediately march over to the National Archives where he will proceed to tear up the Constitution and Bill of Rights to the thunderous roar of a crowd millions. I'm not saying it's anything to be happy about, and mammon I think is just plain off his rocker. I break it down like this: Pro: Watching all the racist redneck hicks and white-supremicists react to their new black president Con: Seeing Hippies crying with tears of joy over their newly elected messiah See - everybody wins.

Just got back from voting. Never voted on a computer before, kinda cool. Anyway I did Obama, then everyone else democrat. That's cuz, again, I live in Utah, so the entire political spectrum is vastly shifted. Democrat here means "moderate". I said no to all the judges and no to any initiative involving money.

because of SCOTUS appointments. We all know this issue always ends up there anyway.

Correct. I said "more likely" not "plausible" or "expected", simply "more likely"

Well, you predicted it, and it came true almost immediately.

As I stated, I live in Utah. My vote is utterly worthless because the electoral vote will always go to the republican. Look before you leap. I couldn't care less about all that. What I do care about is that the person in question in my life is not a U.S. citizen, and it would be very difficult to obtain residence here without a legally recognized union/marriage/whatever.

I was originally going to abstain, but I have decided that I will be voting for Obama today. My reasoning (as I posted in another thread) is that recent events in my personal life have made the subject of gay civil-unions a top value to me, and there is more likelihood that civil-unions would be forcibly recognized in my state of Utah under Obama than under McCain. Plain and simple. I would be willing to suffer through everything else Obama would do if it meant I got that one value out of it.

Because recent events in my personal life have made the subject of gay civil-unions a top value to me, and there is more likelihood that civil-unions would be forcibly recognized in my state of Utah under Obama than under McCain. Plain and simple. I would be willing to suffer through everything else Obama would do if it meant I got that one value out of it.

Ah, the joys of not having a landline phone

lol that would be me *raises hand* For the record, I will vote for Obama, but for very different reasons. I am in no way pro-McCain. My objections is that some people on this borad like you, Mammon, seem to never accept ANY criticism of Obama whatsoever. So I would just like to ask - for the record Mammon, et al, what do you NOT like about Obama? Let's hear YOUR criticisms. If you don't have any - then I simply fail to see how you could belong here - that's not an ad hominem attack, it is a brutal fact. If you have no attacks against Obama, then are you saying he is a perfect, pro-capitalist lassaiz-faire Objectivist candidate? If not then you must have SOMETHING critical to say. I want to hear it just once before this election is over.. please? Lemme hear something!

Usually when I encounter this argument, they are making what is called a "false dichotomy". They aren't conceiving of a society so radically different that they don't realize how much money they lose to taxation currently. Ask them if they ever look at their paystub at the end of the week or actually pay attention to how much in taxes they paid when they file in April. Then ask if they have any idea how much money in sales taxes they have paid their entire lives. Then ask if they have any notion of how much more the goods and services they pruchase every day cost because the manufacturers and retailers have had to imbed THEIR taxes into the price to the consumer. If these people truly understood how much MORE money they would have to their name right now, they might not have trouble conceiving how people would have the money to donate to all sorts of voluntary things in a truly free society.

The number of Obama-apologeticists on this board amazes me.

My high school (In Akron, N.Y.) required us to do community service to graduate. It was part of health class (don't ask me why) But doing (I think it was 8 hours) community service was required to pass the course and passing the course was required to graduate.

Agreed. Ban him please.

Wow... I think you are reading WAY too much into all that. I could, but that would be pointless. I don't know where all the animosity comes from. The former soviet countries are located geographically on the continent of Europe. There is nothing geographically incorrect with saying that. "Eastern-Europe" doesn't end at the border of the Czech Republic (as you seem to be implying). "Europe" stretches FAR into current Russia. If you don't believe me, Here's a map. Saying "Western Europe" or "Asia" would be even MORE misleading and in many cases flat-out wrong.

The largest part of Europe during the days of the U.S.S.R. WAS the U.S.S.R. Belarus, the Ukraine, St. Petersburg and Moscow are all considered to be on the "continent" of Europe. Also the second page of photos on that are: - St. Petersburg - Komsomolsk-na-Amure - Astana, Kazakhstan - Khmelnitzky, Ukraine - Lvov, Ukraine (again, all of which are on the continent of Europe)

I sincerely hope that you are not suggesting that Democrats don't lie and smear.

My eyes are watering from laughing so hard at this. Someone has gone around Eastern European and Russian countries and taken pictures of the "playgrounds" they have there and the nightmarish anti-man sculptures that appear for children to play amongst. Communism at its best people! (there are two pages of pictures so don't miss the link at the bottom to continue to the second page! http://www.darkroastedblend.com/2008/02/ni...laygrounds.html

lol is that a joke?

Everyone needs healthcare! it's a basic right!