Kellymeg80

Betsy, I definately have similar qualities in my description of a personal hero. Would you be willing to do that whole 'nother post? I think I've gotten better at spotting the "fools gold" out, but my radar is so blurry (from bad experiences, I think) that I'm not sure I know how to see the real stuff!

Why would you argue that rationalism doesn't require evasion? As a psycho-epistemologival problem, why wouldn't rationalism be under someone's direct control? Aren't we in charge of our own psycho-epistemologies? What am I missing here?

Wouldn't you say evading is part of rationalism qua rationalism, though?

I'm a hero-worshipper to the max. When I was younger, I saw heroism in success and acheivement in the business/career realm. I still do. I see it as so much more now, though and am having trouble working it all out. In the Objectivist realm particularly, heroism, to me, is partially consituted by an ability to come through life without becoming a rationalist. Also, I'm beginning to see a connection between heroism and learning not to define your self-esteem so narrowly as to let it depend on any one thing (career, money, success in relationships). I've allowed myself to be fooled into thinking people were heroic when really all they were was overstylized, rationalistic and unhealthily attached to career (something I see in a lot of Objectivists, particularly the men). I know all that what I'm saying isn't by any means a full-definition, but really just some floating ideas not yet grounded. What constitutes a hero for you all? Anyone have "hero radar" next to your "rationalist detectors"?

Wow, I was just discussing this exact topic with my family last night! We couldn't come up with a punchline for this: Why did the rationalist cross the road? Anyone? Any takers? Betsy, your virus jokes are great! I'm forwarding them and the Chicken contest to my family and friends. It's about time Objectivists learned how to laugh! Not enough of us do! I have a philosophy joke that most people don't laugh at because they don't know what the heck I'm talking about. So if anyone here it familiar with Leibnitz's theory of Windowless Monads, I'll tell

Free Capitalist, Yes, this "O'ist" friend does need to be taught some serious lessons. Unfortunately, a few of the people (such as myself) who could probably give him a serious trouncing get too annoyed with him to want to spend the time on it anymore. I responded to your PM. Respond back! Betsy, You said in an earlier post that rationalism was not a moral problem, but a bad habit in thinking. I don't think it is quite as clear-cut as that. For the most part, and especially as it applies to younger, less educated people, it is only a bad habit. But as you get older (and especially if you're an Objectivist), if you still use it as a defense mechanism and refuse to introspect and see your mistakes, then rationalism is a moral issue. In the case of this person (and others) I know, he's incredibly intelligent, well versed in philosophy and Objectivism, and simply will not try and root out his problems. He'd rather be "right" in the little world of his mind than fix is detachment from reality. This strikes me as a moral problem, not simply an error in thinking. Any thoughts on this, anyone?

Ha, yes, Desiree and I have a lot in common. She lived down the hall from me freshman year at PSU and had Galt's oath on her dry-erase board. And a friendship was born : ) Desiree speaks well of you, Betsy. From your posts on rationalism, I can see I would like you too. Thanks for the welome.

I agree. I enjoy a good intellectual debate, but was recently caught in the middle of two of my male friends arguing about a fairly small philosophical point...FOR 3 HOURS. I thought I was going to pull my hair out, especially when my female friend and I tried to put our two or three cents in and had insults such as "intrinsicist" and "rationalist" thrown at us. The one guy was defending his point to the death even when it was obvious he was wrong. It was all about his self-esteem and him being right. It had almost nothing to do with what was actually right once he got all tied up in "winning"

Eudaimonist....that's a great name! I've used it before on a different site!

Thanks Ash. Look forward to meeting you and Eran at OCON 2005 too!

Thanks Ash. Look forward to meeting you and Eran too!

Hi Eran, Thanks for appreciating my positive energy! There's a pretty active Objectivist scene in the NYC metro area. You can check out the NY Heroes Society at www.nyheroes.org. That group is run by Objectivists and a lot of area Objectivists participate in it. Their hikes are always fun and a great challenge. Beyond that, there are just a lot of Objectivists in the city who for the most part know each other, so if you meet a couple, you can probably meet a couple more, and so on Also, a guy named Lou Esposito runs this board. http://groups.msn.com/NYCObjectivistSocialGatherings/ Lou and Co. organize some fun gatherings every once in a while, though they've been dormant for a few months. So are you arriving in the US to stay or just for a visit? In any case, let me know when you're here if you're interested in getting to know people. I'm in the city every weekend. Kelly

Thank you Janet! I look forward to contributing to the conversation!

Perhaps attribute it to ignorance of sex with rationalists :-P

You don't know the HALF of it! Ohhh, the double entendre there just kills me! *goes off laughingly*

Betsy-What you have been saying about rationalism really speaks to me! I used to think I didn't like to debate ideas (especially with Objectivists), but realized the reason was that that most of the people I was debating with were rationalists. Since then, I've learned to walk away if someone is being so rationalistic that they're no longer a value. DPW, do you think frustration with rationalism might be a reason for some Objectivist women who don't want to discuss ideas? Betsy, as someone who really seems to have a handle on this, what do you do in a case where you find you are talking with someone you value highly but is being very rationalistic? I have found no way to get people (even loved ones) out of rationalism. It seems that is something Objectivists can become very invested in, almost as a support to their self esteem. Rationalistic Objectivists seem to be willing to defend their point (very emotionally, sometimes!) to the death, because if they're wrong, they're worried that they are wrong.bad/evil as a person. Strangely, though, this is often the only thing rationalist Objectivists are emotional on. Trendwise, rationalistic Objectivists seem to be very unemotional. Any ideas on the connection there, anyone? I know I put a lot of questions out, but this is a VERY important subject for me! Kelly

Hi nimble, You're certainly welcome to come to NYC anytime. We've got a great group of Objectivists here if I do say so myself :-D Thanks for the info DPW. I've always wanted to get down to DC for some swing. Maybe I'll take a trip with some of my swing dancing Objectivist pals I'll let you know when I do get down there! Right now, I'm saving my time off and my money for the 2005 ARI OCON Kelly

Hi all, Kelly here 23, living in NJ. I have a BA in music history/theory from Penn State and am currently studying fine art at the Art Student's League of NY and Graphic Design at Gibbs College. I'm an arts lover (in case you couldn't tell) and appreciate all things beautiful. I enjoy getting out and enjoying life, not just talking about it, but a good philosophical discussion is enjoyable, too. I enjoy dancing (swing especially), reading, painting, drawing and broadway shows among other things. Other things about me. I restarted the Objectivist Club at PSU my freshman year there and helped to run it with my friends Desiree and Rick. I was introduced to Objectivism by my parents. I have been an Objectivist for 10 years and an atheist my whole life Anyone here from the NYC metro area? Talking online is nice, but meeting in the real is better! Kelly

My AIM Screename is BuggingBunny :-P

Kira, Kira all the way for my favorite female character. Her passion is evident in everything she does, in how she strives for life and her own happiness. I was almost named for her and will instead give the name to my daughter should I have one. Favorite male character, I have to say Fransisco. He is most romantically portrayed, beautiful, fully human man in Rand's books. After reading AS at 13, I named my teddy bear after him! (Girls, I'm sure you hear me! ) I would give Hank Rearden a second place for his drive and passion for life.