Release

Where could one get these pieces? I would love to hang those in my house. ~Michael

I keep my views mostly inward as well unless there is a topic I can offer my 2 cents as well. I have had positive responses regarding my views and I get "I like the way you think" and "You have very interesting views" a lot of times, but they are from people who show geniune respect for my views because I hold them as an individual. Those people are new friends and people who I've become more aquainted with over the past couple months since I've learned more about Objectivism. I actually made a good friend of mine come to her own conclusion of denouncing god after I spoke to her about my view of the dangers of believing such irrational things. She was a devout muslim. So I have seen positive responses to my views but overall people are just stand-off-ish and consider me to be 'way out there'....people thought that before but now it's a bit more . And to Montesquieu: I've been running up against many of my friends that I made BO that are not liking my changes, because they are so dramatic. A close friend of mine (and roommate) in which I enjoyed great conversations with has made it very obvious he doesn't like speaking with me now because all my values are completely opposed to him and he's older and set in his ways and REFUSES to see my view on things. This has turned into a very uncomfortable situation lately and he's actually going to be leaving the household soon. But that is because we've grown appart and he doesn't feel comfortable in the house with me now....(he's pretty messed up though so it's kind of a good thing....very bad philosophical foundations and he's a regular drug user so it's for the best.) Things are looking real good though since my changes, I've stopped smoking marijuana for good now, I've read about 20 new books in the last 2 months (only 1 of which was fiction...."Foutainhead") And I now have MANY priorities that I wasn't even thinking about, got a new job making 40k a year and have enrolled in college to get my MBA and Pro Tools certification. So big things have happened in a VERY short period of time and I attribute it to Objectivism (and my seeking of it). ~Michael

Thanks guys for the responses, everyone has touched on many facets of the subject and I'm going to try my best to answer and comment accordingly. The type of attention I'm getting isn't really because I've become this guy who throws around Ayn Rand's name or mentions my core values every step I go (the "preacher type"). It's moreso that I've made large changes in my behaviour (for the good) and people really are noticing very strong changes in me. This is a good thing, because whatever their comment is (negative or positive) it's showing me that I have made some serious changes. The type of resistance I'm getting is actually very trivial, it's nothing but "Oh, he's been reading Ayn Rand." or like Argive 99 said "Oh when I was young I loved Ayn Rand, but then I grew up". But I've come into contact with at least 2 people who think that Ayn Rand is a communist and a fascist (which I easily disputed, but they still didn't listen). It amazes me how much misinformation there is out there. To Bold Standard; my roommate calls me an "Objectionist" as well...I found it hilarious that you've encountered the same. He won't even have a conversation with me because I've disputed at least 3 of his foundations (in a very engaging and appropriate conversation). So really, where I'm at now is that I'm seeing major changes in my value structures and I'm seeing many people notice it. Some people are responding with negative comments because I've changed in a way that it doesn't follow their core values. It's fun though, I'm enjoying the fact that I'm able to see things so clearly now and understand why people are saying certain things, and why they are disagreeing with my philosophy of choice....back to the herd they go. ~Michael

Over the past 3 months I've delved into all the material possible (even the material opposing Ayn Rand's philosophy) and I have found Objectivism has answered all the questions I have found un-answerable and my views have changed on the world (for the better) tremendously. But what I'm finding now though is a LOT of resistance in my groups of friends, family, and people I talk to. Not on a superficial social level, I mean on a philosophical level. My views on the world is completely insane in their views and although they find me interesting, they don't really pay too much attention to my rhetoric becuase they just say "oh, he's been reading Ayn Rand" (not everyone, but I've heard this more than 3 times in the past 2 months). Why is it that I'm getting so much resistance? It's not such a bother, I'm actually quite proud that I'm recieving so much resistance, it almost tells me that I'm doing something right (if that makes sense to you). Anyone experience similiar? ~Michael

This conversation has gotten pretty deep, perhaps I can dig it out a little with my view. Stephen is right when stating: They can be seperated and one can appreciate the music but not the lyrics, but that is not the point of this thread. This thread seems to want to find out why one would like (or dislike) music and is it a form of Hedonism. GoodOrigamiman disperses the association with Hedonism quite simply by stating it's definition: Now that we've found that there isn't a connection between music and hedonism, onto HOW one can judge musical content. Emotions are quick value judgements by using your values that have been stored in your subconscious. When one hears something they like (or dislike) they are agreeing (or disagreeing) with what the song as a whole stands for, or rather, what the songs values are. As an example of a more complicated situation if someone states that they don't like the lyrics but they think the song was produced well, with a good melody, a good beat, and clean production in a studio by a skillful ear then they are sharing their values of quality music and not even thinking of the literature content. I listen to music without lyrics and I appreciate it for it's technicality and for whatever portion of the song that I like (the aggression, the softness, the beauty, the sadness). So there are diferent 'layers' of music that one is making value judgements on; production (if you know it or not), melody and rythem (if you know it or not), and the entire product. What makes a song a GREAT song to you is if all these match up with your value judgements. If they don't match up then typically the song is deemed (by you) 'not so good' but you can still appreciate some other aspects of the song. Now if you don't know what your values are then I would definately do what others have recomended and introspect. I hope I cleared up some of the confusion in the thread, if I didn't, then I added to it...if that's the case then my apologies...lol. ~Michael

lol...what a great display of the most conservative people in our country in one movie. I'm so glad that they also got the most charismatic nicest guy around Zell Miller to make a statement too. This is laughable, really. ~Michael

I created a similiar thread about 2 months ago and you can find it Here. From posting that untill now I have only smoked marijuana twice and those times have been during the weekend after I completed my chores and goals for the weekend. So I looked at it as a 'wind down' and I gave myself enough time to clear the 'haze' so I'm clear headed for the work week. What I've discovered now about drugs is that they are a hindarance and they really do do what Bryan says they do...dumb things down and allow you to evade painfull situations because they dull your senses and you become complacent. I've gotten more things done this month (while quitting weed) than I have in 6 months. I have my entire 5 year plan mapped out and I have applied for the college that I want to go to plus I got a new job making twice as much as I was making and my relationship is better than it has ever been. All that was accomplished by quitting weed for the most part. Now, on the downside, I am having to re-learn how to deal with stress and I've found myself over the past month coming into times where I'm a bit overwhelmed and feel helpless at times, but I personally think that I've felt like that in the past but the marijuana covered it up. As for the cig issue w/Objectivism I feel that Ayn Rand lived in a time where cigs were not looked upon as bad because there wasn't enough scientific knowledge about them so she went on the stylized portion of them and smoked them herself and all her characters in her fiction did as well. I personally have seen how drugs hinder ones ability to understand reality and I've made a pact with myself not to do them to the extent I have in the past (including painkillers which I need...i'm trying to be less reliant on them). So good luck to you! ~Michael

The way I look at it is like this: One needs focus in order to concetrate. Concentration is on ONE thing, focus is needed first in order to gain concentration. Interesting question though....It definately made me think. ~Michael

The way I understood a logical denouncement of god from Objectivism is because of the negative construct the irrationality places on the consciousness. What I mean by negative construct is as follows: To believe in god is to have gotten that concept from some source (the bible, koran, spiritual books not affiliated with christianity, or passed on through traditions). Those sources also provide a moral code established by a 'god' through the people that wrote them or passed them down through stories (10 commandments, buddhist teachings of morals, what rules and laws the koran places, etc etc) To believe in a god is to accept a moral code. If you follow a moral code that you do not hold true then it establishes guilt, confusion and conflicts within yourself when you do not follow that moral code. How is a human being supposed to follow a moral code that is against human nature? The reason why I say that the belief in god is against human nature is because of what it requires of us. When one accepts such moral code they automatically accept the values that moral code implies so when they have pre-marital sex then they are contradicting their moral beliefs (consiously or unconsciously). Depending on their basis of god, they violate a variety of different morals. It may be anything that they do, smoke a cig, have an alchoholic bevarage...if it violates a moral code that the god implies then it is causing a moral conflict within oneself (if they know it or not) and they are hindered by guilt. Most people accept these 'violations' and call them sins, and say that no man is without sin, but to get into heavan (the christian sense) they must submit themselves to an unworldly (illogical) god and not be of 'worldly' things and ask this unknowable figure for forgiveness. To not be of worldly things implies to not follow ones own rational self interest and move through the world as a rational human being. Living with the guilt, confusion, and conflicts because of your moral code only means suppression of a human being and a slow growth as an individual (if growth is possible). This may not disprove god, but it's one hell of a good argument on why not to believe in god. That may not be the official Objectivist philosophy of god, but that is what I got out of it. ~Michael

I've gone through the website and it does help understand the movie...but I really think the movie was good enough at displaying it's plot. Great movie. ~Michael

I just got done listening to the soundtrack again...."Mad World" is such a beautiful song...exellent concept too. Michael Andrews is an exellent composer. As for the movie, I thought it was a brilliant film. I was compelled to watch it again after reading this thread but I think I deleted the copy from my computer. Perhaps the special edition dvd will be purchased. ~Michael

I'm deffinately going to see it. I'm a fan of Lucas (childhood thing I think) and I've never even heard of this film. I just checked and it's not out in my city at all. damn.

I have yet to read your articles but they are deffinately on my to do list for this weekend and there is no internet access at work . On the note of my career, I've had my decision in perspective for quite a while, I just have been mulling over options while I got smaller goals taken care of. I'm looking more into what would be necessary to obtain my ProTools certification right now. As for business classes, I'll probably take a couple just to make sure that I'm prepared properly. Thanks for the support guys. ~Michael

Same thing has happened to me....Rand and Piekoff have done an exellent job at explaining every possible issue that could come up (I'm finding). And this website helps out tremendously! ~Michael

I know that ProTools is the way to go in the professional field and the only reason I havn't gone that direction is because of the sheer cost of the protools rig and software. I'm looking into the certification process and they don't seem to have an online certifcation process....one would need to goto school and the school in Florida that they have is Fullsail. So it looks like I still would need to goto fullsail in order to get the certification. I'm trying to get in touch with administrations but Frances has knocked them out till friday. Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..............i'll find out sooner or later. Thanks guys! ~Michael

Not that I know of to be honest. If one is sponsered by one of those companies then they go far and it's better than a degree but in ordered to get sponsered you have to make a VERY BIG impression on the industry first. So it's a catch 22. I'm thinking about polishing up my technical expertise, reading some more manuals, taking some business night classes and then start a recording business in a city with a high need, but low provider ratio. I would just love to tell people that I graduated from "Fullsail"....that and the environment there is just amazing!!! G5 Macs everywhere with beautiful new studio equipment set up in 20 different fully functional studios!!!!!!!!!!! ~Michael

You guys have been offering exellent advice, but perhaps I need to elaborate a bit more. For the past 6 years I've been teaching myself Studio Engineering...the technical side of music. I have a fully functional studio in my house (and now I'm learning music theory and playing instruments). My studio skills are all the ones I would have to pay 37,000 dollars for at a technical college. I already know how to operate every bit of pertinant studio software with corresponding gear (32 bus mixing boards, micing, synthesizers, samplers, effects processors, etc etc). I'm afraid that I'm going to need that piece of paper to say that I know what I'm doing, the music industry is funny that way...you either do apprentince work for 2 years making 7 bucks an hour and move up or you just come up with your degree making 75grand a year. The business I am most likely going to establish is a recording studio, but not just for budding 'rockstars' but for corporate reasons. Maybe a business needs a training video, I would do the music, mixdown, and mastering. Lets say a preacher wants his sermon on CD format for his congragation...I would provide that service. There are MANY MANY applications this can be applied to and there is a small amount of businesses doing this sort of thing (even in the projected future). So I figure if I get my business classes under my belt then I would be more than capable. Or I could go to Fullsail (in orlando) because they offer (on top of their technical degree) an MBA. That is all within a year, so it seems to be the best bang for my buck. I've read up on several Business books (the dummy series) and I know all the basics of how to run a business (probably get a sole proprietorship) and then once I start to have an income of 75 grand or more I should get a corporation so that I protect my assets, etc etc...although I've been told to do an LLC off the top so I probably do need some business classes. Also, how hard is it for a 23 year old white male who is as poor as can be to get into a specialized college (like fullsail) in Florida? Is it a task that may be out of my reach without a good amount of money in savings or is there grants and loans I can take advantage of (even with bad credit)? Thanks in advance! ~Michael

LuciferChrist got me thinkin about careers (rather than jobs). I just got a new job that is paying pretty well for an uneducated 23 year old but the keyword is a "JOB", not a career. I myself have the entrepreneur spirit and I hope to start a business in the future. Would it be wise to goto college or is that something that can be done with self education? Comments? :edit: i forgot to put a question mark at the end of the title...perhaps I need some college english classes...

The end is near. Bush = Destruction of America as we know it Piekoff was right...Mark his words (and mine right now)

This post is just to thank all the intellectuals who have offered me a plethora of information on topics ranging from epistomology to psychology and even to drugs. This website is an asset that sits as the first link on my IE link bar. I read it 'religiously' and I find everything said on here rational and well thought out. To the people who have paid special attention to me (Spiecher, Argive99, Bowzer, and LuciferChrist) I have to say a special thank you. This website and the people on it has set me on the right path with correct answers that I've been looking for after reading Objectivist Non-Fiction. So once again, thank you....this website has been the best place I've ever encountered. I have now made a career change that has brought me from a $22,000 a year income to a $40,000 a year income where I finally have empowerment within an organization and creative control over my job and I credit that to finding my own rational self interest. Thank you for the support of this website and the genuine caring each one of you portrays. /endsentimentalrant/ ~Michael

It is deffinately the waste of money / time issue. I already have 6 books in line for me to finish and adding another monster of a book wouldn't be the best option (too much for me to take). I'll probably read it pretty soon just to see his full take on it, but from what I understand of his theory it seems very logical. I believe that our consciousness can evolve too and perhaps we are on the brink of a new evolution.

I thought the concepts fit in quite nicely with Objectivism as well, especially if you look to the first chapter of the "For The New Intellectual". While Ayn Rand explains the attilla and the whichdoctor.

The book is entitled "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind". By Julian Jaynes. I havn't got a hold of it yet (paydays coming soon)...but I've read a lot of material on it and I know the basic premise. It basically explains the evolution of our consciousness and how society came to fall into mysticism and beliefs in gods. If anyone has read it, I would appreciate some form of feedback on it. I'm a bit hesitant to read it because of the controversy surrounding the book. From what I understand Julian Jaynes recieved a LARGe amount of critisism from the religious world (understandably) and the scientific community. I'll be picking it up friday regardless. Oh yeah, here's the link to the book: Click Here ~Michael

Finally...someone who I can relate with... I'm quite young in my musical level, I studied studio engineering first because of my interest in technology's application to music. I'm just now learning Guitar and Piano and I havn't gotten to a point where I can improvise. I'm just now figuring out scales and chord progressions and teaching myself music theory. Its taking longer than I thought but I'm sure that if I keep going on this path I'll progress at a good rate. On the note of marijuana, I find myself becoming more creative on marijuana just because it lowers my anxiety level and my inhibitions. I'm actually trying to quit using it altogether and it's been rather successful, just a puff here and there, but I really think it will help my creativity in the long run by getting away from weed altogether. Thanks for the post sir, and I appreciate your insight. ~Michael

or you can just go: [ quote] quote what text it was and then put [ /quote] but with no spaces