sammi Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 has anyone heard of this? here is the page of the website's faq Rationalrecovery FAQ i signed up for a 1 month subscription because i want to stop drinking alcohol-it was $29 but well worth it if is a good tool to keep me sober. i like the basic premise of this ALOT more than the AA model of recovery here is a bit from the site: In effect, you have two separate brains within your head which, among other things, compete with each other. One is primitive, similar to the brain of a dog or a horse. This we call the midbrain. It is basically the brain of a beast, and its only purpose is to survive. The beast brain generates survival appetites which drive the rest of the body toward what it demands, such as oxygen, food, sex, and fluids. These survival needs are all associated with physical pleasure, i.e., the better something feels, the more necessary it seems for survival. Your crazy appetite for alcohol or drugs springs from the force of life, physical survival through the pursuit of physical pleasure. Your survival appetite is aimed at the wrong stuff, to be sure, but the desire to drink excessively is more a reflection of health than of a mysterious disease. The desire for pleasure fades among sick or diseased people, further suggesting that addiction is a reflection of health rather than a disease process. In RR, some call the human midbrain "the party center," because of the bond between pleasure and addiction. Of course, it is often quite stupid (self-defeating) to act on healthy desires or impulses, as in substance addictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 (edited) has anyone heard of this? Yes, I have heard of it, I discovered it a while ago, and have read a bit about it then. From what I remember I really like this approach rather than AA's 12 steps...which are too mystical. I don't need such help (with my drinking), but if I did, this would be THE site I'd go to. Edited November 3, 2007 by intellectualammo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenure Posted November 3, 2007 Report Share Posted November 3, 2007 The beast brain generates survival appetites which drive the rest of the body toward what it demands, such as oxygen, food, sex, and fluids. These survival needs are all associated with physical pleasure, i.e., the better something feels, the more necessary it seems for survival. Your crazy appetite for alcohol or drugs springs from the force of life, physical survival through the pursuit of physical pleasure. I don't know the context of their entire philosophy, but it sounds like they're saying pleasure is bad - and not just in the hedonistic sense, but in the sense that an underlying principle of "this makes me happy" is contrary to a happy lifestyle. I mean, it sounds like these people are conflating short-term pleasures which are taken to avoid long-term miseries, such as avoiding the current relationship issues with your wife, by going out for a night on the lash with the boys. Of course, it is often quite stupid (self-defeating) to act on healthy desires or impulses, as in substance addictions. This sentence doesn't make any sense to me whatsoever. Does anyone know more about this guys, because at the moment, there seem to be some very glaring issues with their understanding of pleasure and happiness, although it could be just a very innocent issue of them conflating terms and words by accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 Does anyone know more about this guys, because at the moment, there seem to be some very glaring issues with their understanding of pleasure and happiness, although it could be just a very innocent issue of them conflating terms and words by accident. Well, I actually never read that quote that sammi has up before there, but I tend to agree with what dan_edge has said in a thread elsewhere: These people aren't perfect, but their approach is the most rational I've seen. [Keep in mind, I am not a professional, but I speak from experience.] --Dan Edge My opinion came from what I had read before, but not from experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammi Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 I don't know the context of their entire philosophy, but it sounds like they're saying pleasure is bad - and not just in the hedonistic sense, but in the sense that an underlying principle of "this makes me happy" is contrary to a happy lifestyle. I mean, it sounds like these people are conflating short-term pleasures which are taken to avoid long-term miseries, such as avoiding the current relationship issues with your wife, by going out for a night on the lash with the boys. no i don't know any more about them-i do have the book rational recovery which i am 1/2 way through-it is pretty good i like the theories I have read so far-the writing is geared toward a large audience. i have read archives of their bboards and understand that it is not that they are saying pleasure is BAD-it is when pleasure is your main focus in life above all others (no self control) that things turn out badly. A person who has a night out with the boys once in awhile is not the same as someone who drinks excessively daily - the first person has no problem to "recover" from s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenure Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 it is not that they are saying pleasure is BAD-it is when pleasure is your main focus in life above all others (no self control) that things turn out badly. Pleasure is not exactly the main focus of my life in itself, but I pursue values which bring me pleasure. Do they see that as bad? Because that is the underlying principle of the pursuit of happiness - the pursuit of values (values being things one aims to keep or gain... because they are pleasurable). This is why I ask, that maybe they don't mean pleasure itself, but that they mean hedonism, the pursuit of causeless pleasure, and pleasure not backed by any rational value. A person who has a night out with the boys once in awhile is not the same as someone who drinks excessively daily - the first person has no problem to "recover" from Of course not, I don't think there is anything wrong with going out for a drink with the boys. What I was pointing to was evasion, of someone going out regularly, to avoid the problems of one's relationship with one's spouse. We don't even have to get drinking involved. Some people become obsessed with hobbies that allow them to become secluded from their families, so as to avoid the complcations there. (Note - I am not saying someone with a hobby is an evasionist. I collect Lego afterall! I'm just comparing someone who pursues that hobby to avoid the complications of life outside that little world, with an alcoholic, and to state that such pursuits can be just as destructive - to oneself and to one's family) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammi Posted November 4, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 yes hedonistic pleasures not pleasures that come from living your values and reaping the rewards of your efforts not that at all excess drinking, gambling, drugging, obessions with sex, overeating-all those pleasures that are basically physical and mindless they still have not let me "in" to the site I signed up yesterday and sent 2 emails, not a good sign s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 We don't even have to get drinking involved. Some people become obsessed with hobbies that allow them to become secluded from their families, so as to avoid the complcations there. (Note - I am not saying someone with a hobby is an evasionist. I collect Lego afterall! I'm just comparing someone who pursues that hobby to avoid the complications of life outside that little world, with an alcoholic, and to state that such pursuits can be just as destructive - to oneself and to one's family) Good point, and an important one to make. What you said's got me thinking a bit more about my writing. I still think that I'd describe my writing as more of a tremendous projection rather than an evasion though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenure Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 What do you mean by a 'tremendous projection'? Do fear that your writing is somewhat evasion...ary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted November 4, 2007 Report Share Posted November 4, 2007 (edited) What do you mean by a 'tremendous projection'? Do fear that your writing is somewhat evasion...ary? No, did, but only so far as that I was considering if it was or not. It's not and my intention is to make that clear in it, that it is not, and the difference and reason as to why it isn't. No evasion of reality is taking place, only projection. It's difficult to describe out of the context of my book, since parts of it are written so poetically. I'm still writing it too. Edited November 4, 2007 by intellectualammo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammi Posted November 5, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 I am getting kind of annoyed now... I signed up once and forgot to add my email address to the sign up-I wrote them and they said they had no record of me signing up. (It took almost 2 days to get this reply) Signed up AGAIN about 8 hrs ago and am still not authorized to login, sent them an email awhile ago still no reply. I have an authorization # which I sent in the email. If I get one more email saying I am not signed up I am not going to try again-this plan costs $ and to me this is shoddy service especially considering this is an individual trying to help themselves. Will post on the outcome. I expect this runaround from mental health professionals - I shouldn't but I do-this case is just completely annoying! s Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan_edge Posted November 5, 2007 Report Share Posted November 5, 2007 Try calling them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammi Posted November 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 6, 2007 things have been ironed out and i am now a member there-i like what i see so far VERY much thanks for listening sammi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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