Confession and Questions

[Mammon]

I'm ugly.

I'm not going to lie about. I have a facial birth defect. I've had 17 major reconstructive surgeries in my life with 4-6 minor ones. This shaped my views of the world drastically. My defect not only left me hideous, but also gave me a speech impediment, and hearing issues. Which, needless to say gave me a huge communication problem throughout my life.

I've also been made fun of all my life. When I first moved to Louisiana I was seven years old and I didn't have any friends here. My first few days here were horriable. It's not so much that kids made fun of me, only a few did, the others laughed and everyone treated me like I had eboli dripping from pores. So I brought my stuffed Panda Bear with me too school because he was my only friend. Then everyone made of fun of me for bringing my bear to school. (This of course being because everyone here wanted to look so cool and no one else wanted to admit they slept with stuffed animals at the age of seven). In fact, it also made me look brave too, which got me some praise.

But, I still couldn't fit in with the other kids. So, I eventually settled on playing in the dirt in the corner of the play ground, where I could be by myself, in my own little world. Either that or find one of those concrete barrels to hold up in til all the other kids went away and sneak back into class.

I bring it up because I've been sort of looking back there for awhile. I live down the street from that school now and I was even thinking about going down there one night. The reason I've been thinking about it latetly is, because even though my lot in life has improved drammatically, I still don't really feel like I can ever get over my deformity.

It won't ever go away, and I can honestly feel the affects it has on my social life. I have friends, good friends. It's not like I need more friends, but when I meet a lot of new people it seems to become an issue.

I haven't really been thinking about for a long time, because, when I look in the mirror it actually inverts my image in such a way that I actually look symetrical. But I'm not. I literally look better in the mirror.

But when I see a picture of myself I can see this huge noticable difference. I'm actually ashamed of it. I hate pictures of myself, and video is even worse. I hate looking at myself.

I'm wondering if I just evaded it for a long time. I'm trying to improve and tell myself I've improved. But latetly, I just don't feel like I ever have.

A big indicator is with woman. I used to not be able to talk to women, I can/do now. That's about the only advancement I've seen on that front. Talking to a girl is never really effective unless we are alone. I should clarify and say for romantic purposes, or with women who have pontetial for romance. I have female coworkers, I can talk to them and we get along.

But, I really don't know how to put this, they never really seem interested in me for long period of time? Does that make sense? All woman are like that. Like a 3 minute conversation is usually all I get, and then a long time in between that conversation. But, usually they give a lot more time and attention to other guys.

So, here I am. I make them laugh, I actually talk, I intiate conversation, I don't talk too much because I don't want to be annoying, I'm a quite and comtemplative to begin with, I do everything I can to be outgoing. But it never gets me anywhere. I'm the one doing all the work, for the most part.

I know it sounds kind of pathetic, but I wonder if it's just an indicator that I'm really no good in womans eyes.

It's not even about self-esteem. I have a stable ego. But no amount of self-esteem is going to change the reality of the matter that I'm not attractive in whatever way.

I keep telling myself I don't need a partner, when the truth is that I really don't think I can get a partner that meets my standards and there is only one person in the this world who I actually really want to be with. Sure, maybe I haven't had the right oppurtunity yet, but they way I'm treated by women right now worries me if that oppurtunity will even come.

It's just... not going to happen.

So I guess the question is this -- is there any real hope for me? Would it be evading reality if I kept telling myself "Things will get better, you'll get better and hopefully you won't be in this position anymore"? Because this is honestly something I don't have the power to completely change.

It's not just woman. I think it's given me a really bad attitude, like I can't overcome things so I have to accept a worse position in life. Even though I try to talk as clearly as I can, I can only guarantee people will hear me if I yell at the top of my lungs very slowly.

Is it contradictory to Objectivism to say that I can't overcome this? That I'm never going to have a chance at romantic love (as in, the other person accepts and gives it back), that I can live life to the fullest when I have to go through other human beings that won't take the time to understand me?

Sorry if this is kind of babbling. It's late, I've worked all day and I really just wanted to get this off my chest.

[~Sophia~]

The reason I've been thinking about it lately is, because even though my lot in life has improved dramatically, I still don't really feel like I can ever get over my deformity.

It won't ever go away, and I can honestly feel the affects it has on my social life. I have friends, good friends. It's not like I need more friends, but when I meet a lot of new people it seems to become an issue.

I feel great deal of compassion for you and I know that a lot of what I will write is easier said than done but you have asked for advice so I will do my best.

Wishing for reality to be different in any aspect if futile. You probably know that conceptually but try to make sure that it truly sinks in. If something is outside of our control the only rational thing is to accept it, conceptually and emotionally, the way it is. That is the only way we can successfully deal with anything really. It is a necessary first step. Evasion will stop you from taking the correct steps toward achieving your goal.

I am not saying that you should start liking it - you are free to dislike it - but that dislike must come with a great deal of acceptance. Maybe it would be helpful for you to take lots of pictures of yourself and keep looking at them until there is no more negative emotion. Kind of a conditioning exercise. Perhaps you can think of better ways than me of reaching that acceptance.

I'm wondering if I just evaded it for a long time. I'm trying to improve and tell myself I've improved. But lately, I just don't feel like I ever have.

If there is something which you feel you can do to improve I would pursuit it but to just pretend that something changed is not going to help you psychologically. Self deception is never a solution.

Once you achieve that state (and if you are not there - it will come through in your interactions with others no matter how carefully you will try to hide it) then you can calmly review the situation to see what kind of things you could do to achieve your romantic goals. For example, think of places in which you could be more successful. A bar may not be the best place not only due to the type of people that usually frequent them (rather superficial) but also due to the ambient noise level. Instead, think of places in which you could find people who will be more likely to value the same things as you.

My impression is not that that is the only available option for you - just one of the options - but perhaps I would seek people who are going through a similar challenge in some way (I don't mean the same thing and I don't mind blind - just in some way - it can be anything). It is not much different than seeking someone who speaks the same language. You could find someone very attractive, inside and out, someone truly wonderful, that way. Your struggles will be mutually understandable - your heroism of facing the difficulty fully recognized.

But again that is not the only possibility - I would try to meet people through similar interests rather than work.

I know it sounds kind of pathetic, but I wonder if it's just an indicator that I'm really no good in womans eyes.

People are often guilty of thinking that the grass is much greener on the other side, in this case, meaning that others have a lot easier time at this than you. Perhaps slightly that is true but I can assure you that many people go through very similar struggles in the area of romance. Sometimes not for any other reason than being very shy due to lack of self esteem further due to a faulty self evaluation.

If you have something to offer another that is a fact. You just have to find a person who sees that and I think you would agree that it would be highly irrational to assume that no such person exists.

It's just... not going to happen.

You can not be sure of this anymore than I can be sure of an exact weather on an exact date a month from now. Know what I mean?

So I guess the question is this -- is there any real hope for me? Would it be evading reality if I kept telling myself "Things will get better, you'll get better and hopefully you won't be in this position anymore"? Because this is honestly something I don't have the power to completely change.

Of course there is hope as long as you remain "breathing". Things will surely get better, in terms of, achieving your values if you take the necessary steps to achieve them.

It's not just woman. I think it's given me a really bad attitude, like I can't overcome things so I have to accept a worse position in life. Even though I try to talk as clearly as I can, I can only guarantee people will hear me if I yell at the top of my lungs very slowly.

The advice for this is similar. Do what you can, what is within your control (without making excuses) and accept the rest without beating yourself up for it or loosing too much sleep over it. It is like how I treat paying taxes

Edited November 18, 2007 by ~Sophia~

[Old Toad]

Mammon,

As you are my friend, you had already told me some of this.

I keep telling myself I don't need a partner, when the truth is that I really don't think I can get a partner that meets my standards and there is only one person in the this world who I actually really want to be with.

It is true that a person doesn’t need a partner to live and to have some happiness in life, and I would think that reminding yourself of that should help a bit when you feel down.

Many people feel lonely and unsure of ever being able to find the promise and hope for the special happiness of a romantic relationship. But I think it was Nathaniel Branden who challenged the idea that there is only one other person in this world for each of us.

It will be harder for you to find a romantic partner than for others, but I do not think impossible. You have some qualities that others can appreciate. You wrote that you have some good friends. Although I think that the difference between a friend and a romantic partner is probably a difference of both degree and kind, I think that if you can make good friends it indicates that you should also have some hope of your being able to make romantic relationships.

(Edited to rephrase a sentence.)

Edited November 18, 2007 by Old Toad

[Thales]

It won't ever go away, and I can honestly feel the affects it has on my social life. I have friends, good friends. It's not like I need more friends, but when I meet a lot of new people it seems to become an issue.

Sophia says accept it and she's right, if it's a reality, but don't give up the idea of improving the situations by increments, or even vanquishing the problem. Put yourself in charge. Set out a plan of attack, and try to come up with innovative ideas to improve. Look at it from every angle, continually (solutions to problems can take years of dedicated thought until you come up with an "aha!"). Maybe buy a notebook dedicated to solutions. I’m not saying dwell on it, that’s likely a mistake, just give it some serious thought from time to time, so that you're proactive. For example, you could engage in body building to make your body more attractive and martial arts to make yourself a better athlete. Maybe use make up, work on your complexion, whatever. If it's a real concern of yours, then you could even decide to work in a field where you're more likely to find a solution and know what to do about it.

Regarding “hope”, of course you have hope. Girls go for guys who are best able to deal with reality -- that's Betsy Speicher's insight. So, if you become really good at something and stand out positively, that will only help you. My belief is you'd be able to get some of the sweetest girls if you can rise so high. Cyrano was a poet and a great swordsman.

Anyway, aside from that --- this may sound corny, but it's absolutely true -- character is the most important thing.

[JASKN]

It sounds like you have a pretty good grasp of your situation and have given it adequate thought, so at least right now I do not think you're evading anything. Whether you have in the past or not, who cares? If it's bugging you, just think back honestly about how you've dealt with it, make a judgement call, and leave it at that. It's more important how you do and how you're going to deal with things, not what you've done so far.

Especially after a long day at work, your feelings seemed to be magnified in a slightly negative way. Sophia said it, as long as you're breathing, it's nonsense to conclude that "it's just not going to happen." Furthermore, Thales helpfully mentioned a plan of action. You're a human being, a man, right? Not a rhinoceros or anything. So out of such a huge pool of people on this planet, there are bound to be several or many who would potentially find you attractive. So your face isn't that pretty. Well, there's a lot more to romance than a man's face. Thales, again right, emphasizes character, also known as personality, also known as that "spark" in romance, which only includes a person's face, not encompass it.

That's where the plan of action comes in. Keep thinking about what you want with romance and the best ways to get it. What good aspects of your character (or your body) do you already have (things like maybe a sense of humor or a proportional physique)? Keep those in mind. What can you reasonably gain (like conversational skills, or an active, happy mind)? Work to gain them. What I am trying to get at is an ugly face does not cancel out romance.

And as far as girls not talking to you for longer than three minutes, I'd guess that it has been situational so far. So you can't go up to someone on the street and have her enamored? Few can, I certainly don't have that ability. You've found so far that a one-on-one situation works best, so keep pursuing that. And try new social scenarios to see if something else could work, too (and drop the ones that don't). Although you have a slightly unique situation here, an elevated level of "ugliness" with your face, like Sophia said, your situation is similar to most people in that you should take what you've got and work with it.

Edited November 19, 2007 by JASKN

[Inspector]

This may be incidental, but from what I've observed, women are much more likely to overlook a facial deformity and look at the overall man than men vice versa. I think you're lucky to be a guy. Masculinity is also less about being pretty - if you can focus on enhancing your other manly qualities I think you could very well "compensate" (in a good way) for your unfortunate handicap.

Besides, if our civilization doesn't collapse, I expect that plastic surgery will advance. Of course, you may need to get rich to benefit from that sooner rather than later, but being rich is just a good thing in general. The point is, you need not look at your condition as necessarily permanent.

[4reason]

I'm wondering if I just evaded it for a long time. I'm trying to improve and tell myself I've improved. But latetly, I just don't feel like I ever have....

So I guess the question is this -- is there any real hope for me? Would it be evading reality if I kept telling myself "Things will get better, you'll get better and hopefully you won't be in this position anymore"? Because this is honestly something I don't have the power to completely change....

Is it contradictory to Objectivism to say that I can't overcome this? That I'm never going to have a chance at romantic love (as in, the other person accepts and gives it back), that I can live life to the fullest when I have to go through other human beings that won't take the time to understand me?

I don't think you're guilty of evasion if you're hoping for things to improve, nor do I think your current pessimism toward romantic prospects make you guilty of this either. You obviously have a good grasp of what it is about yourself that troubles you and why, which is quite the opposite of evasion. Now, going on to make the declaration that "I can't overcome this" is a bit problematic. I think as long as your mind has its power of volition turned on -- and the fact that you are explicitly and consciously working to sort this issue out clearly indicates that you mind is indeed "on"-- you possess the power to change your circumstances.

Wishing for reality to be different in any aspect if futile. You probably know that conceptually but try to make sure that it truly sinks in. If something is outside of our control the only rational thing is to accept it, conceptually and emotionally, the way it is. That is the only way we can successfully deal with anything really. It is a necessary first step. Evasion will stop you from taking the correct steps toward achieving your goal.

If there is something which you feel you can do to improve I would pursuit it but to just pretend that something changed is not going to help you psychologically. Self deception is never a solution.

People are often guilty of thinking that the grass is much greener on the other side, in this case, meaning that others have a lot easier time at this than you. Perhaps slightly that is true but I can assure you that many people go through very similar struggles in the area of romance. Sometimes not for any other reason than being very shy due to lack of self esteem further due to a faulty self evaluation.

This is EXCELLENT advice and I second everything Sophia has to tell you here. I wish someone had offered me these words when I was struggling with all these same issues in my school-days. You have a good grasp of what the reality of your situation is, at least the part about what it is about you that troubles you. I lacked self-esteem for, well, most of my life. The severity of it wavered from time to time, but it really wasn't until a little over a month ago that I was really able to shake it ( a result of a devastating romantic loss). It seems strange to say that something great like self-esteem could finally emerge out of the rubble of an emotional disaster in my life, but that's what happened. That's the reality of my situation.

Sophia is absolutely right to say that many people go through similar struggles. I am one of those people. While I don't necessarily have a facial deformity, I have a very childish face. People always tell me I look just like a doll, and sometimes I can't figure if they mean that as a compliment or an insult. At least the children I work with think I'm pretty; I have always had a natural ability to connect with them --I'm always the teacher that's able to reach that "shy" kid and make them feel safe as a starting point in their journey toward self-esteem. One of my co-workers offered the thought that it's precisely because I look more like a child that children relate to me better. In that regard, it's a good thing. But I also have asymetrical eyes; one eyelid naturally rests a little lower than the other and that is still the first things I notice about myself in pictures. I also didn't shed my facial baby fat until college. In elementary school, I was called all sorts of horrible things: troll, ET, turtle, etc. Things did not get any better in middle or high school, either. I gained a lot of weight fast when puberty hit, and have only recently found a healthy balance these last few years.

I let my lack of self-esteem cause me to do a lot of stupid thing, and I say let because it truly was a choice even though I was not able to see these decisions as such at the time they were made. I struggled with abusing diet pills for several years and even briefly tried them again months ago when I was told I was fat in a joke I obviously did not take too well. For a while, yes, I was 98 pounds and skinny. I had a rush of boys interested in me in college, or so I thought. My female friends were always jealous I had all these great looking guys hanging out with me all the time, but the truth was that I just became that smart girl they could go to to get help with their course work. They pretended to like me and I fell for it at first, but quickly figured out what the reality was. Changing my appearance didn't change the lack of self-esteem I was still truly failing to identify. All it did was change who was willing to identify it on their own and exploit it for their own purposes.

I possessed the attention of a great man for nearly five years and because I had his affections I became guilty of taking his love as the driving indicator of my self-worth. I thought, wow, if HE loves ME then I must be greatest woman alive. But the truth is, that self-doubt was still there. My self-doubt was a little more complex than just a general dislike of my appearance; it involved a lot of not feeling good enough about my intelligence or any of my abilities as well (thanks, mom, by the way for laying the foundation for that burden...). I, then, did commit evasion. I told myself I was happy with everything about myself-- because I had the love of this man who, in retrospect, saw more potential in me than I did during our relationship-- when inside that doubt was still there. How am I certain it was still there? Because I nursed a lie I told him for two years. I did not have the courage to confess my lie until I was confronted by him on it for the third time. If I truly did love him, I would have told him on my own, and he was 100% right to tell me what I did is not something you do to someone you love. You shouldn't evven do that to your worst enemy. So when he left me I couldn't be angry, because he was right. I did not love him because I had not yet found love for myself. Losing that person who I had been guilty of proping my self-acceptance up on was an awakening moment. I can't explain the feeling except to say that it felt surreal. I felt like I was sitting in a void, and it took me nearly a week to really realize that it wasn't a void at all. It was the beginning of my self-esteem with all the burden of guilt and everybody else's approval and opinions swept aside at last. I was left, and that was not a pit of despair at all; it was a great treasure to be recognized and built upon.

You say there's only one person you see yourself wanting to be with. With that, as you can tell, I sympathize. The man my lack of self-esteem cost me is the one man on this earth (besides myself!) who I can say that I love because, for the first time in my life I understand who I am and I love it. This comprehension has opened a thousand doors all at once for me; I understand Dominique's rebirth via Cortlandt completely. To consciously identify that burden that's been upon one's shoulders (though her burden and mine were quite different) at that moment you are freed of it... it's positively invigorating. I love that man with a passion no words could describe, and am quite puzzled at the fact that everyone thinks I am crazy to say that I love a man even more after he let me go. He hurt you, they say. I just smile at their ignorance: I hurt myself ( and he's probably the only other person, besides myself, that can see that aspect of reality) and it is precisely because I see that now that I can HONESTLY say I love him. Identifying that self-doubt allowed me to shed it, and when I was the only thing left, with nothing or no one to prop myself up on any longer, I realized who he is as well. I only wish I could have shown him, at last, who I am: to prove that he was right to suspect that glory in me all along. I had a choice. I could have wallowed in that pitty everyone was so eager to give me or I could rise from the ashes with a new sense of self-esteem, a fresh acceptance of reality, and a vitality I can't even describe. I chose the latter.

I'm not telling you all this because I see our situations as identical. They're not, but the fact that you are already able to put your finger upon the cause of your concerns, I can tell you, puts you one step closer to overcoming it. And the fact that you're on that track prior to entering into any serious romantic relationship gives you a great advantage. True happiness, after all, lies not in putting an end to your pessismism, but rather it lies in knowing that you are worthy enough to never feel that way again. You're close to that, and I feel I can say that with good confidence because I have been there, and very recently at that. And if you follow Sophia's advice, and focus on the good in you that you already know is there, you'll get past this pessimism soon enough.

Edited November 20, 2007 by 4reason

[-archimedes-]

"et al."

~Sophia~'s words of wisdom (beyond her years no less) notwithstanding (kudo's to you!), I would take this, all of this that you have written, and send it in a letter to Oprah at:

Ms. Oprah Winfrey

c/o Harpo Studios

1058 West Washington

Chicago, IL 60185

I initially thought to suggest that you e-mail it to her, but after some checking I discovered that they didn't allow enough space for you to get all of your story down in an e-mail and I felt that all of it needed to be seen by her.

I suggest that you do this because I'm aware that cosmetic surgeons have managed to accomplish great and wondrous things with plastic surgery, particularly full facial reconstructions.

Good luck and best wishes.

Edited November 20, 2007 by -archimedes-

[Thales]

Sophia is absolutely right to say that many people go through similar struggles. I am one of those people. While I don't necessarily have a facial deformity, I have a very childish face. People always tell me I look just like a doll, and sometimes I can't figure if they mean that as a compliment or an insult.

If people say you look a "doll", that invariably means you're pretty. If I said, Jessica Alba looks like a doll, I'm clearly complimenting her on her beauty.

[4reason]

If people say you look a "doll", that invariably means you're pretty. If I said, Jessica Alba looks like a doll, I'm clearly complimenting her on her beauty.

I suspect it's often meant as a compliment. The confusion lies in the fact that adults almost always offer the statements "you have such tiny lips and big eyes" to go with it. Might as well be describing a bug... I guess I'd say I look like I should have been alive in ancient Greek or Victorian times, which is to say I like the way I look (now, finally). Eh, but why worry what other people think. I look like me, that's all I know and the beauty lies in my comprehension of that.

PS: I'm working on the personal photo (camera issues), not that that matters, but I like seeing faces that go with names so I'm working on offering that same benefit to others in regard to myself.

[JMeganSnow]

I'm ugly.

Yeah, me too. (I'm fat. And before anyone says something encouraging, I'd just like to add that I am 170 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT. I AM FAT. Sorry, but I get REALLY sick of the nice act.) However, I've learned over the past year or so that the *limiting* factor of things like this lies mostly in your state of mind. I have no success with romance because the fact that I am fat makes me feel guilty, angry, and kills my self-esteem.

The thing about being fat, though, is that it is under my control, yah? Whereas having a facial deformity isn't something you can do much about, other than what you have done. My case and your case are basically opposite. Part of my personal growth has been to accept the fact that I *cannot* have a romantic relationship until I do *something* about my weight. Part of *your* personal growth should be along the lines of accepting that you *ought* to ignore your deformity entirely. You're not ugly, even if you're asymmetrical and odd-looking. You're *unique*.

I can't speak for other women, but *personally*, deformities don't bother me. What does bother me is not knowing how to talk with people about it. I had a good friend in college that was in a bad car accident, his arms and legs were severely torn up, and he was wheelchair bound. If I'd had any idea how to approach him, I would have had no problem having a romantic relationship with him, and he seemed to like me. But I never knew what to say.

So, if you're having a hard time maintaining a conversation with women, you may want to start monitoring if they are acting like they feel awkward, and try being very up front about whatever oddity you may have. Encourage them to ask questions and don't be awkward about it yourself, and they will relax more in your presence (I think).

If you can't be that confident, yet, you may want to do what I did, and decide that now is just not the right time. I found it to be a very freeing decision because I don't even *think* about trying to ingratiate myself with men (or whatever), so I never find myself worrying whether they consider my weight to be off-putting. I just assume that they do and don't agonize over it, until some future date when I've lost enough weight that I can be confident in my appearance again. Oh, and I'm trying out a new diet at the moment, along with taking a nice long walk daily. It hurts, but I'm coping.

[intellectualammo]

I love that man with a passion no words could describe, and am quite puzzled at the fact that everyone thinks I am crazy to say that I love a man even more after he let me go.

I really like this comment, because it kinda goes with what I've mentioned later on in another thread. The one we love is definately loveable to us, but we might not exactly be loveable to them, and that does not necessarily lessen or inherently lessen our love we have for someone else, after having known that. It can, yes, it's possible, but it didn't in your case, and it wouldn't in mine, if that was known. I just wanted to make this quick comment, and hope not to fray yet another thread