Are you afraid of death?

[Julian]

I don't think I am anymore. I used to picture a big nothingness, which always made me uneasy. However, I know now that that nothingness can't exist.

Although we follow a creed of life, we'll all die one day. So, are you afraid of death?

[softwareNerd]

Here's an earlier thread that might be of interest.

[JMeganSnow]

I don't think I am anymore. I used to picture a big nothingness, which always made me uneasy. However, I know now that that nothingness can't exist.

What?

This statement really fundamentally makes no sense at all. If you go out of existence, then what exactly could you be experiencing that could be described by any term other than "nothing"? Are you saying that you know there has to be *something* when you die? Well, the *rest* of the universe doesn't stop existing, but how are you going to know that?

I think a major rephrasing or clarification is in order.

[D'kian]

This statement really fundamentally makes no sense at all. If you go out of existence, then what exactly could you be experiencing that could be described by any term other than "nothing"?

If you stop existing you stop experiencing. You won't experience nothing because there won't be a you there to experience anything. What did you experience before you were born?

BTW I mislike the idea of nothingness. There's really no such thing as "nothing."

[Jon Pizzo]

If you stop existing you stop experiencing. You won't experience nothing because there won't be a you there to experience anything. What did you experience before you were born?

BTW I mislike the idea of nothingness. There's really no such thing as "nothing."

Isn't that exactly what he or she is saying? He stated: I know now that "nothingness" cannot exist. He said what you and Jmegansnow are rephrasing.

Edited November 20, 2007 by Jon Pizzo

[D'kian]

Isn't that exactly what he or she is saying? He stated: I know now that "nothingness" cannot exist. He said what you and Jmegansnow are rephrasing.

We are?

As I said, I mislike the idea of nothingness. It's also hard to articulate cogently.

[Steve D'Ippolito]

I believe that most people who are afraid of what will happen to them after they die have some mental image of their consciousness, still out there existing, floating around in a state of sensory deprivation, and that is what they mean by "nothingness".

That would be genuinely scary. Sensory deprivation is used as a method of brainwashing and/or torture; people quite literally go mad.

Fortunately what will happen is not that you will continue to exist off in "nothingness" but that your consciousness will cease to exist while the world goes on without you--much as it did for the c. 14.5 billion years before you were born, which you hardly had to suffer through in some state of "prelife". You will have exactly as much awareness of what's going on *after* you die as you did before your born. You know the "prelife" wasn't bad, so don't sweat the "afterlife."

The only thing that need concern you is the actual life in between those other two phases.

[RationalBiker]

I've always thought about it this ways; I'm not afraid of being dead but the manner in which I die is another matter. While it makes little sense to worry much over how one is going to die, as we have no sure control over that, it crosses my mind from time to time anyway. I have a vivid imagination, a couple of phobias and a somewhat hazardous occupation so you guys do the math. The one time when one of my phobias intersected with my occupation, I worked through it and got the job done but I didn't feel at all well during it.

[Matus1976]

I believe that most people who are afraid of what will happen to them after they die have some mental image of their consciousness, still out there existing, floating around in a state of sensory deprivation, and that is what they mean by "nothingness".

This is also the flaw at the root of the idea that death gives meaning to life, like a free man can not truly appreciate freedom unless held captive, so life can not be truly appreciated unless it ends. But since you do not subjectively continue to experience not existing, you can't compare the states and in no possible way can it enable you to appreciate one state more than another. While we can mentally emulate freedom and slavery, we can not mentally emulate not existing.

[TheEgoist]

I am afraid of death, for a couple of reasons.

1. I went to a Christian ( Not Catholic ) school from 6th grade until graduation. I am an Atheist, and I believe there is essentially nothing, not even a " peace " at the end of one's life. But I think for a lot of people who had a lot of hardline Christianity in their early years, its hard to always think of the afterlife as nothingness. Theres a terrible part of me that still contemplates a life in Hell if I continue a " bad " existence. I was, until the summer of 2006, a Christian so these concepts and mental images are still fresh in my mind.

2. I think if someone is telling you they are not afraid of the absolute unknown there is a bit of a bluff involved. If nothing else, death is " spooky ", just as many things that the human mind cannot comprehend can seem " spooky ". Occasionally on an early walk to school I'll look at the sky and just attempt to imagine its vastness. I get that feeling in my spine of helplessness. I am a spec of dust on a spec of dust in an infinite universe and it can just screw with my mind.

3. I just love my life. I do not want it to end, not even in my worst hours.

[JMeganSnow]

This is also the flaw at the root of the idea that death gives meaning to life, like a free man can not truly appreciate freedom unless held captive, so life can not be truly appreciated unless it ends. But since you do not subjectively continue to experience not existing, you can't compare the states and in no possible way can it enable you to appreciate one state more than another. While we can mentally emulate freedom and slavery, we can not mentally emulate not existing.

Why does it require mental emulation and experience? I've been amazingly free my entire life and I have full appreciation for the meaning of freedom. We can't really imagine what it would be like to be sucked into a black hole, either, but I sure know that I don't want it to happen to me.

Also, death doesn't give meaning to life. It's what makes the concept of meaning possible, but you aren't automatically granted some actualized meaning of life simply because you're going to die someday. Likewise a pair of glasses may make it possible for you to read a book if you're farsighted, but you wouldn't say that glasses give meaning to books. I'm not sure I like my analogy very much. Hmm.

[Galileo Blogs]

I am afraid of death, for a couple of reasons.

1. I went to a Christian ( Not Catholic ) school from 6th grade until graduation. I am an Atheist, and I believe there is essentially nothing, not even a " peace " at the end of one's life. But I think for a lot of people who had a lot of hardline Christianity in their early years, its hard to always think of the afterlife as nothingness. Theres a terrible part of me that still contemplates a life in Hell if I continue a " bad " existence. I was, until the summer of 2006, a Christian so these concepts and mental images are still fresh in my mind.

2. I think if someone is telling you they are not afraid of the absolute unknown there is a bit of a bluff involved. If nothing else, death is " spooky ", just as many things that the human mind cannot comprehend can seem " spooky ". Occasionally on an early walk to school I'll look at the sky and just attempt to imagine its vastness. I get that feeling in my spine of helplessness. I am a spec of dust on a spec of dust in an infinite universe and it can just screw with my mind.

3. I just love my life. I do not want it to end, not even in my worst hours.

Egoist, I think this is an instance where your emotions are lagging your conscious convictions. If you only became an atheist in 2006, your life as an atheist is short compared to the length of your life as a Christian. You have had much longer time to integrate Christian beliefs and therefore program your sub-conscious accordingly. Therefore, emotionally you still feel that the putative afterlife is "spooky," that you are a "speck of dust in an infinite universe," and that Hell awaits you if you are bad.

If I can say "trust me" on this issue, I would say given enough time as an (Objectivist) atheist where you think about and integrate your rational beliefs everyday, your emotions will change. I was raised Catholic and even became an altar boy. I have been an atheist now for nearly 30 years. For me, the emotional pull of religious ideas stayed with me for quite some time. Only gradually did each of my emotional reactions change. On an emotional level, some religious symbolism can still evoke a certain "religious" emotion in me, although these instances are now quite rare. (One of them is religious Christmas carols; I still love them, although now I think it is largely a reaction to the music and their sense of exaltation, not the religious content as such.)

In sum, my advice is not to worry about your emotions. Instead, focus on and stick to your well-thought conscious convictions, and enjoy life in the here and now on this earth. If you feel any guilt about that, it will gradually diminish until only your ability to experience guilt-free, secular joy remains.

Edited November 21, 2007 by Galileo Blogs

[Miles White]

I always thought that it is pointless to fear things that are going to happen anyway and that you can't change. It's not like worrying is going to help get rid of it, just deal with it.