Jump to content
Objectivism Online Forum

Did I do the right thing?

Rate this topic


Recommended Posts

Okay, so I've been talking to this wonderful girl online now for a few months. She seems to like me a lot. Lately though she had sort of disappeared and since I had no other way of contacting her I left a message asking if I had upset her or something. Today she messaged me saying that she wasn't mad at me, and the reason she was away was because one of her male friends was suicidally depressed. She went on to explain that she agreed to date this guy until at most the end of the year, even though she really doesn't like him. She says she's very unhappy dating him, but she continues to do so out of a sense of moral obligation. She made it seem like she'd be much happier with me, with the way she worded things.

Now, here's the tricky part. Since I only know this girl online and I'm not sure how much she actually cares about the other guy, I told her I was ok with what she was doing and that I was here if she needed to talk about it.

I feel like I took the "safe" route, not the Objectivist route. I fully realize what this girl is doing is morally wrong. She's doing something that makes her very unhappy for no other reason but because some sad sack said he'd kill himself if she didn't date him. She's dating someone who she dislikes out of guilt and pity. I think that this guy is just taking advantage of how nice she is, and that he might even be faking his depression. But I didn't say any of this to her because I wasn't sure and I didn't want to risk looking like an "internet stalker guy." For all I know this guy could be someone she's known her whole life and is like a brother to her or something. But still, it's wrong by O'ist standards. This girl has never heard of Objectivism and is plagued by the fact that she's too damned nice to everyone, no matter what they do to her. So I don't think arguing my point to her would go over too well, as she's too much of a humanitarian. But I really feel like I did the wrong thing by not expressing concern for the choice she was guilted into making.

What do you think, Obejctivists? I really care about this girl and I don't want to see her get dragged down by some moral hijacker. Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What do you think, Obejctivists? I really care about this girl and I don't want to see her get dragged down by some moral hijacker. Any thoughts or ideas will be appreciated.

I would say, that you are making a mistake in that you are being hijacked by her every bit as much as she is by him. She is or wishes to use you for someone to lean on without offering anything in return. Don't be "nice" like that. I would suggest explaining to her to the extent you are able, how "loving" someone out of pity and guilt is an outright betrayal of the very concept. That love is a derivative of admiration; a celebration of values. Not a duty. Further, I would tell her straight out that I was interested in her romantically but if she continued seeing him I would rather give up any possibility of that romance, or even friendship, then watch while she suffers the inevitable consequences of her mistaken view of love.

Depending on the circumstance, I might leave the caveat open, that she could remain friends if she had been close to him for a long time, but probably not. Very often people who say they will commit suicide are doing it solely for attention and emotional control. In this case, it sounds like a textbook example of emotional manipulation. When someone says that, they need to be directed to a psychologist and not enabled by continued emotional support. It is the adult equivalent of a toddler crying to get the toy.

Be prepared to give her up, but if you explain it well and she gets it, then it is also, ironically, your best chance of forming a relationship with her. If she doesn't, then you really should have no interest in being in a relationship with her anyways. Honestly, what does someone with a guilt bound sense of love have to offer to a relationship?

Trust your thoughts. You are definitely on the right track.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand what you're saying perfectly, but I don't want to risk losing her even as just a friend. She's one of the only people who ever actually listened to me instead of just yelling at me or something, and she made it clear that this is just a temporary thing that she is enduring for a friend. So yeah, in a way I'm doing the same thing, but I can't risk losing her. And she's not really using me as something to lean on without anything in return. She pointed out that at the next available day she wants to hang out with me (she lives one town over) and she definitely hinted that she was romantically interested in me before. It's more like she's saying "I want to go out with you but just hang on for another month while I sort things out with my friend. In the meantime we'll go somewhere together but it won't be "official" until my friend is dealt with" Quite frankly I think she's worth waiting for, especially considering how stunningly attractive she is :ninja:.

She has some backwards ideas in her head, yes, but so did I a year ago. In fact I was just like her before I read Atlas. I think she's intelligent enough to become an Objectivist, and I'm thinking of getting her a copy of AS for Christmas. It'll be more of a present for both of us than for her, but she won't know that right away :P.

Either way it gives me a bit of romantic security knowing she wants to be with me. This next month will be tough but I'm going to talk to her about it and SOFTLY suggest she "check her premises." If she stays with the guy it'll just be her loss for the next couple of weeks. Just because she's a bit naive is no reason to turn her away. John Galt didn't tell Dagny to get lost because she was dating Francisco back before she'd realized what was really right, after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you ever even met this girl??

Methinks you're being played — BIG time!

No, but on several occasions we stayed up until 2 a.m. having wonderfully in-depth discussions about various philosophical topics on instant messenger program. Also, a couple of my friends who are girls know her and they say she's legit. My best friend called and told me that she messaged him asking tons of questions about me, one of which was "is he single?"

I hardly think I'm being "played."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On a level not related to the subject, but tying in with what Kevin said, I would say just don't invest much of your time into this girl. I may be young, but I was in a very pr-longed, long distance relationship. We saw eachother many times, but it is her truly a monstrous task to have trust in a relationship of that nature.

I think the girls actions are ridiculous, first and foremost, and don't know why you want to associate with someone like that. I don't think you took the right route by getting at all emotionally involved and by sanctioning her actions with your wishes and support. The best and only support you can give her is to tell her to let go of the other guy.

There are some definite mind games going on, from one party or another.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On a level not related to the subject, but tying in with what Kevin said, I would say just don't invest much of your time into this girl. I may be young, but I was in a very pr-longed, long distance relationship. We saw eachother many times, but it is her truly a monstrous task to have trust in a relationship of that nature.

I think the girls actions are ridiculous, first and foremost, and don't know why you want to associate with someone like that. I don't think you took the right route by getting at all emotionally involved and by sanctioning her actions with your wishes and support. The best and only support you can give her is to tell her to let go of the other guy.

There are some definite mind games going on, from one party or another.

Ok, first of all it would not be a long distance relationship. She lives ten or fifteen minutes away from me.

Well, who do you want me to associate with, hmmm? The dumbass sorority girls at my school whose greatest intellectual achievement was getting so hammered they forgot who they were sleeping with? I don't have many other options. She may not be perfect now, but she can be with a little work. And that's work I'm willing to put in for. Her looks are perfect, she's smart, and she likes me. Why should I choose not to associate with her when I could turn her into the perfect girl just by setting her on the right path? She's very open and she listens to everything I say, so I'm sure I can convince her of the error of her ways. But I'm NOT just going to say "hey you have to stop dating that guy and go with me instead because it's sick and evil and wrong and blah blah blah." I'm going to wait until we meet in person (1-2 weeks) and I'm going to get the whole story. If it turns out this is her best friend and both his parents died on the same night or whatever, then I'll understand. If it's not like that I'll calmly state my case on why I don't agree with what she's doing. Even if she only sees what I mean in the slightest bit, the most miniscule way, then the rest should fall together automatically. But I don't want to give her up just because she's not an Objectivist. I wasn't an Objectivist a few months ago. I was eager to sacrifice myself to complete strangers out of a false sense of guilt. Why should I judge her for doing the same? She just needs a little help understanding what she's doing and why. I'm willing to help her see things the right way, because I want the reward of her love. What's so bad about that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is nothing wrong with wanting to help her see the right way of living. I think you should tell her what you know to be true, that it isn't right that she sacrifice herself for someone else and that her friend would not appreciate her pity if he really were sick. You could tell her that she is misleading someone and that when he gets better and she leaves him, he could spiral back into depression once more. What will she do then? Date him again? Show her how this is an endless cycle and that her plan will not work the way she intends it to.

If you value her a lot, then stick with it. If she is intellectually honest, she will see reason in your arguments and try to change herself.

Good luck!

Edited by Mimpy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is nothing wrong with wanting to help her see the right way of living. I think you should tell her what you know to be true, that it isn't right that she sacrifice herself for someone else and that her friend would not appreciate her pity if he really were sick. You could tell her that she is misleading someone and that when he gets better and she leaves him, he could spiral back into depression once more. What will she do then? Date him again? Show her how this is an endless cycle and that her plan will not work the way she intends it to.

If you value her a lot, then stick with it. If she is intellectually honest, she will see reason in your arguments and try to change herself.

Good luck!

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for not jumping down my throat like other people <_< .

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks for not jumping down my throat like other people <_< .

This is why you shouldn't ask random people online for advice on your love life, especially not if you aren't prepared for them to tell you that you're an idiot. Frankly, you're an idiot, but it happens to most people sooner or later so no one can decide what to do except you.

My take is this: you did the right thing because it is NOT your place to tell her what to do. The more you care for her, the LESS it is your place to tell her what to do EVEN BY IMPLICATION by telling her what you will and won't tolerate in the relationship. DON'T tell her. If she does something you won't tolerate, JUST LEAVE. Don't try to work it out, don't tell her how she needs to fix herself. That's for her to figure out.

If you still want to spend time with her despite her obvious flaws, that's your business. You may want to take steps to protect yourself like refusing to hang out with her *and* the other guy and telling her you're not interested in discussing her relationship with this other guy. Oh, and don't sleep with her, regardless of provocation, until he is long gone.

If she leaves him and then goes back to him, dump her, she's poison.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I understand the notion of "girl fixing." More then a decade of experience at it, in fact. I would like to warn you about the pitfalls and unintended consequences you will run into, but I do not think that you are in a place to hear it right now. You made your decision before you even asked for advice.

I'll give you this one hint though since it applies either direction. Your actions now will set a precedent for what behavior is acceptable. The things you tolerate now, will allow her to do any and everything similar to it in the future without fear of consequence. And she will. In this way, jmegan is especially correct. With people, you must always act only on what is and not on what you hope could be.Don't give her extra slack because she's hot. Hold her accountable for what she says and does, because it's just. And also because it will set you apart. This came up in an earlier thread, but i'll mention the notion again. Attractive people are given more leeway in their behaviors and many learn to take advantage of it. They usually like people not deferential to their looks more then those who go all puppy dog over them.

I understand what you're saying perfectly, but I don't want to risk losing her even as just a friend. She's one of the only people who ever actually listened to me instead of just yelling at me or something, and she made it clear that this is just a temporary thing that she is enduring for a friend. So yeah, in a way I'm doing the same thing, but I can't risk losing her. And she's not really using me as something to lean on without anything in return. She pointed out that at the next available day she wants to hang out with me (she lives one town over) and she definitely hinted that she was romantically interested in me before. It's more like she's saying "I want to go out with you but just hang on for another month while I sort things out with my friend. In the meantime we'll go somewhere together but it won't be "official" until my friend is dealt with" Quite frankly I think she's worth waiting for, especially considering how stunningly attractive she is <_<.

She has some backwards ideas in her head, yes, but so did I a year ago. In fact I was just like her before I read Atlas. I think she's intelligent enough to become an Objectivist, and I'm thinking of getting her a copy of AS for Christmas. It'll be more of a present for both of us than for her, but she won't know that right away :D.

Either way it gives me a bit of romantic security knowing she wants to be with me. This next month will be tough but I'm going to talk to her about it and SOFTLY suggest she "check her premises." If she stays with the guy it'll just be her loss for the next couple of weeks. Just because she's a bit naive is no reason to turn her away. John Galt didn't tell Dagny to get lost because she was dating Francisco back before she'd realized what was really right, after all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi LiberTodd,

Despite having limited information, I think I can offer you modest advice anyway.

I fully realize what this girl is doing is morally wrong. She's doing something that makes her very unhappy for no other reason but because some sad sack said he'd kill himself if she didn't date him. She's dating someone who she dislikes out of guilt and pity. I think that this guy is just taking advantage of how nice she is, and that he might even be faking his depression. But I didn't say any of this to her because I wasn't sure and I didn't want to risk looking like an "internet stalker guy." For all I know this guy could be someone she's known her whole life and is like a brother to her or something.

With regards of addressing this situation to her, I think that you can honestly express your perceptions on this matter, while prefacing your comments by reminding her that you only have limited information on this guy and her history with him. You observations are legitimate as is your concern for her. If you honestly articulate this to her, she should hopefully appreciate it and respect your view.

Of course, just offering your perception on the situation, that is, why dating this guy out of pity is not in her rational self-interest, is definitely different from giving advice or telling her what to do. Unless if she asks for your advice, you should allow her to make her own decision on this matter.

Quite frankly I think she's worth waiting for,

This sentence set off serious warning bells in my mind. She is making a conscious decision to date this guy while she knows that you are interested in seeing her. It would be very dangerous to deny the reality of this. Honestly, I cannot think of any "boyfriend on deck" situation that ever worked well for the hoping-to-be-boyfriend. You can still be her friend, but I would seriously be careful not to get besotted with her very easily. This is especially true since you have already acknowledged some legitimate warning signs, as indicated in the first passage that I have quoted.

Again, please understand that I have limited information here. Thus, when I offer advice, please interpret it as guidance to what questions you should ask yourself.

Why should I choose not to associate with her when I could turn her into the perfect girl just by setting her on the right path?

This is another matter that I can speak of from personal experience. It is perfectly fine to offer her advice if she requests it, but do not expect to be able to change her. Just like everyone else, her character is, will and always will be a function of choices she makes for herself. This is beyond your control and it would be dangerous to operate on the premise that you can influence significant aspects in her personality.

I agree with AequalsA in that you are on the right path and you are asking good questions. Continue to trust your rational judgment and try not to let your emotions override your decision making. Needless to say, this can be difficult at times. Most importantly, do not deny any negative characteristics that you perceive in her personality. This is not to say that you should expect perfection, which would be extraordinarily unreasonable for anyone. Instead, just take this as an admonition that any denial of an important aspect of her personality will not change the fact that it is an aspect of her personality. As with everything else, evading reality, which includes the reality of how some individuals are, is never a good thing.

I hope that this helps! I wish you good luck and good mind in your romantic endeavors.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

LiberTodd,

I think several people have already pointed you to the right principles to be thinking about. There several ways you could choose to handle it, and while I'm not necessarily sure that AequalsA's ultimatum method is the only method that would still abide by those principles.

Given you've not met this girl yet, I'm going to assume that you also don't have enough information or the relationship is not to the point where offering advice or issuing ultimatums would be prudent. However that doens't mean you don't want to be clear.

Also, given what you've said in your previous post about wanting to be more open and the feelings of lonliness you feel, you should be very cautious about examining your own motivations for wanting to stay with it. Your danger is that you should be taking stronger measures that you are unwilling to.

I understand what you're saying perfectly, but I don't want to risk losing her even as just a friend. She's one of the only people who ever actually listened to me instead of just yelling at me or something, and she made it clear that this is just a temporary thing that she is enduring for a friend. So yeah, in a way I'm doing the same thing, but I can't risk losing her. And she's not really using me as something to lean on without anything in return. She pointed out that at the next available day she wants to hang out with me (she lives one town over) and she definitely hinted that she was romantically interested in me before. It's more like she's saying "I want to go out with you but just hang on for another month while I sort things out with my friend. In the meantime we'll go somewhere together but it won't be "official" until my friend is dealt with" Quite frankly I think she's worth waiting for, especially considering how stunningly attractive she is <_< .

Those statement sent off warning bells in my mind. Why is she attractive? Didn't the fact that she was faking for this guy make her less attractive in your eyes? It should have. Recognize that the first thing someone want to do to rationalize this is to continue to hold her in the same esteem and to deem her "fixable". Admiration + pity is still a reduction in your esteem.

Hoping you can fix someone is a very dangerous thing to continue to think. You need to be wiling to really question that emotion within you. Notice the trap tho, you continue to believe she's worth waiting for.

Look at what she's doing in a little more clear light. It's not that she's taking time away from you to help a friend. If it was that, then you should be very respectful of it. It might be well intentioned and it might be tied to genuine feelings for a good friend. The issue is that she might be faking a romantic relationship and asking you to wait on it. I would not take this lightly.

Based upon what you've said, and the newness of your relationship, I'm not sure you have enough information or staus with her to either give advice or be issuing ultimatums. If this faking is mixed up with her genuine feelings for her friend, and she's in the middle of it, and she is worth waiting for, you've just risked having her confuse your good intentions with some form of slap at her friendship. Look at what your doing. it says on the one hand, "I really value you", and on the other "but I question your judgment." It is a mixed message. It's not the you can't question her judgement, but saying that simultaneously dilutes both messages.

However, you hanging out waiting in a "whatever you want" sort of situation isn't right either. If she really wants to fake a romantic relationship, no matter how well intentioned, then she hasn't earned the right to have you "on deck." I think a reasonable approach to take is to say "I understand you want to be there for your friend. Take all the time you want. Let me know when your situation is over and we can continue." That is not "I'll be here for you." That is, "I'll see you when you're finished." That respectfully says, I do feel value for you, but I also value myself and this is what you've earned. Then I wouldn't contact her.

If she really does have feelings for you, and to the extent that she hates this whole dating thing, she'll want to continue with you, and now she can't have both. It's only until the end of the month right? If that's true then it should be no big deal. If she really is stuck in this sacrifice situation, you will be able to tell by her actions. It is an ultimatum in a way, but one that gives her a path to behavior that will redeem herself, and one that allows you to continue to express the value you feel for her (although I still can't figure out why.)

John Galt didn't tell Dagny to get lost because she was dating Francisco back before she'd realized what was really right, after all.

ugh, please don't use that in comparison. They are night and day. John Galt didn't nurse a budding relationship with Dagny. Nor would Dagny have asked him to wait for her while she faked a relationship with Fransisco. Their behavior was much crisper, and cleaner and much more just, as yours should be.

Edited by KendallJ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, Objectivists. Here's what happened.

I thought I would be OK with this at first, but I went through this girl's profile some more and I just found more and more reprehensible things. I have felt guilty for the past several hours because I realized that by pretending I was cool with what she was doing I was going against everything I believe in. I felt like a failure to myself, and I couldn't live with that. My way of Life is more important to me than this girl, so I decided I had to explain my viewpoint to her ASAP. The following is a copy-paste of the message I just sent her with the private info omitted:

"Look, I really need to get something off my chest here. Yesterday when you messaged me I was so happy to see you that I wasn't really sure what to think and I just sorta wished you the best of luck with your situation. However I feel terrible about doing that because about an hour later I realized how much I morally objected to what you are doing. I won't try to change your mind, but I want you to hear what I really think:

From what I understand, you are dating someone who you aren't happy with out of a feeling of moral obligation and guilt. I cannot begin to tell you how reprehensible and vile that is. I was just like you about a year ago, you know. But I spent 3 months in Hell and I realized that there is NOTHING virtuous about accepting burdens you don't deserve, and there is NO good in feeling guilty about something that isn't your fault. I understand that you don't feel that way because as I said I was just like you once. I walked around looking for things to sacrifice for because sacrificing made me feel like I was making a difference. All it ended up doing was enabling the rest of the world to take advantage of me. The only meaningful sacrifice is the one that benefits you, the sacrificer. Making unnecessary sacrifices is an insult to your essence, your integrity, your potential, and your life itself. And expecting me to support you for that is insulting to me. I can't respect someone who doesn't respect themself, (*her name*). You have committed no crimes. Why do you choose to suffer? You have nothing to atone for. Why do you offer yourself up like a sacrificial animal to everyone who comes along? Do you expect some sort of reward for that? You will not receive such a thing, no matter how much meaningless pain you put yourself through, because meaningless pain is just that, it's meaningless.

You won't ever be free until you realize that the only way to help people involves hurting nobody at all. Including yourself. If he's suicidally depressed then your friend does not need a girlfriend, he needs a hospital. Trust me, I've been through similar things. If his life is in danger then why do you try to take things into your own hands when a professional would do a better job at no emotional cost to anyone? If you really cared about your friend you'd leave him in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing. What do you think will happen to resolve this issue? Even if he gets better, who's to say he won't spiral back into depression as soon as you leave him? Then what will you do, date him again? How can you end a cycle like that with your philosophy of worthless self-sacrifice? Eventually you'll be all used up, having gained nothing and "fixed" no-one.

Look, (*her name*), I'm not trying to force my philosophy on you by any means. Force has no place in this world, be it from the barrel of a gun or from guilt trips and moral manipulation. The choice is yours to make. But if you want my respect then you're going to have to earn it like everyone else, and I can't respect someone who belittles herself and everyone around her by refusing to realize her potential and wasting herself on whatever comes along, and then expects support in her senseless endeavors. I like you a lot and I will try to be your friend for as long as I can, but if this is the way you've decided you want to live then it is inevitable that you and I must go our separate ways. I won't reduce myself to your level to make you happy, but I'm willing to do whatever I can to help you see things the right way. But only if you want me to. You're very intellectually capable and I think it won't take you too long to realize what you've been doing wrong all these years. It took me three long months before I could cast aside the chains I'd fastened to my own wrists, but it was well worth it.

If you feel like I'm missing a point or if you just want to talk about what I said, feel free to leave me a myspace message or call me at ###-###-####. If you hate me now and want to tell me to go to hell, please do so. I won't hold it against you. But either way I'm done being an emotional chameleon. I will not pretend like I support what you're doing when I find it to be evil, because the only reason evil can destroy people is by the sanction they give it. I want you to understand that although I like you and I see a lot of potential in you, I don't necessarily need you in my life. You can't be anything more than a friendly acquaintance to me until you realize that Love is always a celebration of values and never a charity event.

Well, that's pretty much all I have to say. It feels good to finally be honest with you. The ball's in your court now, kiddo. Where it goes from here is up to you. I just hope you have better judgment than I did back when I thought and acted just like you do now. "

As you can see a lot of words from you people made it into this message, so I really should thank all of you for helping me get my point across. I feel like I did the right thing and even if she doesn't want to see me anymore I'll be ok with it. I can't live a lie in order to be loved, because that makes me no better than the guy she's dating.

Edited by LiberTodd
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, Objectivists. Here's what happened.

I thought I would be OK with this at first, but I went through this girl's profile some more and I just found more and more reprehensible things. I have felt guilty for the past several hours because I realized that by pretending I was cool with what she was doing I was going against everything I believe in. I felt like a failure to myself, and I couldn't live with that. My way of Life is more important to me than this girl, so I decided I had to explain my viewpoint to her ASAP. The following is a copy-paste of the message I just sent her with the private info omitted:

Congratulations. I think you did the right thing...obviously. Be sure to let us know how(if) she responds.

It was a good letter. To be a little nitpicky about it, I would recommend being careful with using the term evil to describe someone and their actions. Objectivism has a somewhat unique view of the word, so when others here it, they immediately think Hitler and not "acting against my own longterm rational best interests." You did well to describe it, but the association to the word is slow in people to change. I find that the description without the label does better to explain to them their eroor, since it doe not put up a defensive barrier in their mind in the same way.

Other then that it was pretty good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not that I really want to get involved in the problems of someone else's love life, but I think saying something like, "I love you, but you are immoral in this regard..." will probably destroy the potential of a relationship. While I definitely think that open communications is one of the keys to having a successful romance, if you think she is doing something immoral by your standards, doesn't that decrease you affection for her? You need to think very carefully about what you think she knows and what she doesn't know. If she has come out and told you that she doesn't like standing by this guy in terms of being his pretend girlfriend, then she already knows it is wrong without having to read anything by Ayn Rand.

Besides, I think one has to be careful about "nice people". In my dealings with people, if they are overly nice it means that don't have a very good foundation for the self-esteem required to become an Objectivist. In other words, to become an Objectivist one has to be very firm about reason and rejecting the irrational -- in themselves and in others. "Being nice" usually means that one is too altruistic.

There is nothing wrong with being polite, and politely but firmly standing by one's convictions, but someone who is too nice isn't being firm in that sense. It implies that she is too soft, which is probably why she is continuing with this other guy.

Don't get me wrong here, I think that if you know someone who is on the edge of suicide and you value them then you ought to stand by them until they are over the crisis, but one shouldn't pretend to be that person's boyfriend or girlfriend in those circumstances unless there is really something there solid and the guy is having emotional or psychological problems that are not his or her fault. If someone I loved was about to commit suicide, I would encourage them to overcome their problems, that death is not the solution unless there is absolutely nothing else that can be done to correct the situation. And I would be there with them, and would encourage them to go to a psych ward, without implying any negative moral evaluations of them. However, a person has the right to commit suicide, and if they insisted, then one would have to let them go. It would be sad, but it is his or her life.

In other words, one ought not to stand by someone merely out of a sense of pity -- one ought to stand by someone because they are of value to you. To put this in terms of The Fountainhead, Howard Roark felt pity for Keating, but he didn't stand by him because of this. On the other hand, Roark wanted to stand by both Wynand and Dominique even though they had made some dreadful mistakes.

I thoroughly understand wanting to stand by a potential -- and I've done it many times in my life; but, to be honest, hope sucks. And I've been disillusioned so many times that I almost give up on love, and then I check my premises and realize that I put too much hope on hope, and let her go -- which you might have to do here.

One ought not to fall in love with only the potential, but with the actual -- and she has to factually show that she is the actual, and not just be making promises to change her ways.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, things turned out much better than I could've expected.

Apparently before she even read my message she approached the guy and explained her feelings to him. She said he also wanted to end the relationship because he knew he was making her feel guilty and it was only making things worse for him. She says she isn't mad at me and she agreed with pretty much everything I said.

So what this shows is that this girl is capable of asserting herself and acting in her own self-interest without my intervention! Apparently I was a bit too presumptuous about her in the first place.

She says she wants to meet me in person sometime over Christmas break.

:)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's good news for you that even after receiving that letter that she wants to talk to you and get together with you.

Now...if you want to keep her, then I suggest you go private -- and don't post any more of your letters to her on the Internet. I realize these days that going public seems to be the way to go, but keeping it private will make it more personally meaningful.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...