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athena glaukopis

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I'm one of those people that doesn't like coffee.

My sympathies.

Plus, I like tea,

I like tea, also. But I usually drink it only when I'm cold.

and I don't really need any other method of getting a caffeine fix.

Oh, well. There are so many sources of caffeine these days that coffee isn't necessary. I like Coke, too.

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Damn heathen.

What's next? Atheist? ;)

Look, for a soft drink mannufacturer, Pepsi is really good at turning out fried snacks and fast food (assuming it still does). It's like Microsoft, which for a software company it makes the best mice.

Pepsi had its heyday back in the 80s, which brought about the New Coke heresy and other absurdities (like die hard fans of Classic Coke who couldn't tell Coke from Pepsi, never mind New Coke, to save their lives). And it's all been downhill from there. That said, I drink Pepsi Max now and then, when I can't find Diet Coke or when I feel like somethign different. But I do have a little Coke keychain for my office keys. I'd never get a Pepsi one.

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I've been to restaurants with people that were asking "is there alcohol in this coffee drink" while I was asking "is there coffee in this alcohol drink?"

I can handle coffee, but only if I put inordinate amounts of sugar into it. This weekend, I had a latte with some friends visiting London in the cafe in the basement of St. Paul's Cathedral. I first put two sugars in it, then tasted it and found it hopelessly bitter. I kept adding sugar and even dropped two chunks of Belgian chocolate into it, but it was still too bitter. It was after 5 or 6 sugars plus the chocolate that I finally found it sweet enough.

Just the night before, the friend had observed that there are those who drink coffee with sugar and there are those who drink sugar with coffee. I am definitely of the latter type: if it ain't sweet, I don't care for it!

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I kept adding sugar and even dropped two chunks of Belgian chocolate into it, but it was still too bitter. It was after 5 or 6 sugars plus the chocolate that I finally found it sweet enough.

Try it the other way. Make chocolate and add a little coffe. Either a half shot of espresso or, sacrilege, a half tea-spoon of instant coffee. Over time increase the coffee and decrease the chocolate, always with just a little sweetener (two sugars, one equal, one splenda, or whatever). eventually you'll get a proper mocha latte.

Just the night before, the friend had observed that there are those who drink coffee with sugar and there are those who drink sugar with coffee. I am definitely of the latter type: if it ain't sweet, I don't care for it!

Well, frozen coffee drinks (coffe milkshakes, really) are quite sweet. Most places you can have them with whipped cream and chocolate syrup.

And just as an aside, today I ate a little lunch with my salt (ugh!) That's one restaurant I won't ever go into again.

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I never got the allure of alcohol, other than it helps some people have a fun time. I drink with people to be social, and I think its pretty fun to try and down more shots than the next guy ( because I have a natural tongue of steel ) but I rarely, if ever drink alone anymore, nor do I ever have a desire to.

If I am to drink, I normally choose a hard liquor such as malt whiskey, Jagermeister ETC. I can't stand sipping away at beers.

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  • 1 year later...

I prefer opiates to relax. In fact, I think opiates are a much safer way to relax, relatively speaking, without all the added negatives that come with alcohol consumption. Alcohol just doesn't do it for me, the buzz isn't that great.-what's more, I am able to keep my focus while on an opiate buzz, whereas alcohol can make you plain stupid, over emotional, and way uncoordinated.

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I prefer opiates to relax. In fact, I think opiates are a much safer way to relax, relatively speaking, without all the added negatives that come with alcohol consumption. Alcohol just doesn't do it for me, the buzz isn't that great.-what's more, I am able to keep my focus while on an opiate buzz, whereas alcohol can make you plain stupid, over emotional, and way uncoordinated.

Sounds like a joke, but if it's not:

Opiates are the most addictive drugs. They are almost impossible to shake, especially heroin. Have you ever seen a person after he stopped using for 24 hours? It's not a pretty sight.

As for alcohol, it may make me uninhibited and slow for a few hours, but that's it. You on the other hand run the risk of spending the rest of your life falling asleep everywhere, unable to think, except for maybe the one hour after you get a hit.

And if you don't do heroin, but rather stick to the pills, well guess what: you'll develop a tolerance, and you'll need more and more to get high: eventually (in a couple of years) you'll either die of liver/kidney failure, or end up switching to heroin.

I guarantee you that once you are addicted to heroin, you're in either for a painful period of rehab and a life spent trying to stay clean, or a very early death, because eventually you'll have to take doses which do hurt your body.

And then there's opium itself, which doesn't kill you, but other than that it has the same exact effects as heroin on you life. You better be independently wealthy if you wish to keep up with your drug use, because working on opiates gets increasingly difficult as time goes by.

Quite frankly, even cocaine (powder or smoked) is probably a safer drug to try to use just for fun than opiates. I don't recommend it, but at least someone who otherwise has a normal life can choose to give it up, in theory.

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I prefer opiates to relax. In fact, I think opiates are a much safer way to relax, relatively speaking, without all the added negatives that come with alcohol consumption.
If by relax you mean high for a while and then thinking about getting high during every moment that you aren't. And if "without negatives" means that the realistic picture that Jake painted is somehow positive. Opiates are life destroyers, and it's either totally dishonest to link to them something positive like relaxing, or in very bad taste to make a joke about it.
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If by relax you mean high for a while and then thinking about getting high during every moment that you aren't. And if "without negatives" means that the realistic picture that Jake painted is somehow positive. Opiates are life destroyers, and it's either totally dishonest to link to them something positive like relaxing, or in very bad taste to make a joke about it.

Opiates are not actually as incremementally destructive as alcohol as far as I'm aware. The majority of harm related to the use of opiates is high mainly due to inconsistency of the product you purchase, which is the harm factor created by a black market. Most heroin users die from overdose, not liver/kidney failure, and the overdose is related to the fact that they can never be aware of the strength of the product from purchase to purchase. I'm not suggesting however that it is not 'life destroying' when it becomes a habitual 'need' in the long run, but the good applications of opiates for individuals (from a healthcare point of view) far outwiegh the bad. For alcohol however there are very few medical applications and it is just as much, if not more of a slippery slope (due to scoial acceptability) than opiates.

I do think that alcohol has two very positive uses. As a fuel and as an on-the-spot antiseptic.

Edited by Axiomatic
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Most heroin users die from overdose, not liver/kidney failure, and the overdose is related to the fact that they can never be aware of the strength of the product from purchase to purchase.

I haven't slept in a while and I'm OCDish when I'm tired, so I'm iching to point out , quite needlessly, that I did say that organ failure comes from the pills (allthough hearth failure can come from heroin too).

I absolutely agree that heroin users tend to die of overdose. However, they do tend to die, and even if they survive, giving it up is the hardest of all drugs. Why give yourself those two options?

With alcohol on the other hand, most people can spend a lifetime drinking casually, and die of Azlheimers when they're ninety. Obviously not taking the risk of being in the minority which can't makes perfect sense, but alcohol remains a far safer drug than the illegal ones.

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I haven't slept in a while and I'm OCDish when I'm tired, so I'm iching to point out , quite needlessly, that I did say that organ failure comes from the pills (allthough hearth failure can come from heroin too).

I absolutely agree that heroin users tend to die of overdose. However, they do tend to die, and even if they survive, giving it up is the hardest of all drugs. Why give yourself those two options?

With alcohol on the other hand, most people can spend a lifetime drinking casually, and die of Azlheimers when they're ninety. Obviously not taking the risk of being in the minority which can't makes perfect sense, but alcohol remains a far safer drug than the illegal ones.

I therefore challenge you to give up drinking alcohol for the rest fo your life and endure the psycological/socialogical pain. Plus, alcohol withdrawl, if in fact you are gorssly habitual, is one of the worst forms of withdrawl known to man. I have seen it first hand.

EDIT: Also, I know of occasional Opiate users who are far less agressive and far less prone to infringe apon anothers rights of life, liberty and propery. Now what is your definition of 'safe'? An occasional drunk who loses his ability to control himself in public? Or an Opiate user who can maintain his occasional useage and does so passivley, as per the drug induced state?

Edited by Axiomatic
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Plus, alcohol withdrawl, if in fact you are gorssly habitual, is one of the worst forms of withdrawl known to man. I have seen it first hand.
Withdrawal from alcohol can be fatal. The same is not true of opiates. Today alcohol is hyper-regulated, including the percentage of alcohol that may be sold in a drink. If there were free markets for opiates and alcohol, I would not be surprised to hear more cautionary tales about alcohol than about opiates. Alcohol really is one of the more dangerous substances, but we don't fear it because we understand how to use it responsibly. Familiarity breeds safety.
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Withdrawal from alcohol can be fatal. The same is not true of opiates. Today alcohol is hyper-regulated, including the percentage of alcohol that may be sold in a drink. If there were free markets for opiates and alcohol, I would not be surprised to hear more cautionary tales about alcohol than about opiates. Alcohol really is one of the more dangerous substances, but we don't fear it because we understand how to use it responsibly. Familiarity breeds safety.

You make a great point about drug use here that I don't think is as widely understood as it should be. When one has used a substance many times there is a certain familiarity to it. I drink quite often and my experience with 4-8 drinks would be very different than my good friend who has never even tasted alcoholic drinks in his lifetime. Yet I would be extremely nervous using MDMA compared to someone who has raved for 10 years.

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The bottom line as I see it:

If you are drinking because of the alcohol part - the numbness, not because you like the taste of the drink, you are seeking pleasure from subduing your mind. Then you are "enjoying" life through the premise of death, and that looks like a contradiction to me.

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This thread is why I don't go drinking with my Objectivist friends. I do like to drink - I don't that often, but when I do go out, I don't want to feel like I am being watched to see how much I consume. I care for all my Oist friends dearly, but manner of them appear to view having more than a drink or two as immoral. I remember mentioning a few months ago to an Oist friend that I met some friends at a certain bar I had never been to before and I thought the bar was a bit skanky, but it was still fun. They looked at me like I was crazy and said something like "you go to bars?" :confused:

When my husband and I go to a bar, perhaps to meet some of his friends from work, or to dinner, we may have a few drinks. If he has had a really stressful week, or if he is celebrating a work accomplishment, then I tell him - I won't drink and will drive - not because he is getting "stinking drunk" but will have just enough that he may have a buzz so it wouldn't be wise to drive. However, what is a buzz and what is drunk vary for different people. And sometimes he will only have a few beers over a course of a few hours so I can drink more - I am much more of a "light weight" than he is, and if I have more than 2 beers over the course of an hour I won't drive, even though I feel perfectly fine - just to be safe. I also don't drink if I have to get up early the next day, or if I am the only adult at home.

Getting a buzz is not getting stinking drunk. Getting a buzz now and then is NOT being a drunkard, neither is it evading anything. There is nothing wrong with enjoying that buzz - in fact, I find alcohol, though not necessary, is a very lovely thing to include in celebrations. Enjoying good drink - there is nothing wrong with that at all. My son is soon to be 18, and over the past several years, we have allowed him to drink a little here, a little there - maybe a half glass of wine, or an occaisional beer. On New Year's Eve we allowed him to have a shot of whiskey. (Of course, he is not allowed to drink outside the house - hopefully he obeys that rule - and he is not allowed to have anything to drink when he has a friend over and neither are they.) In Europe many children grow up having a little alcohol, and they learn how to handle it. (Of course - many don't!)

When my younger kids get older, we will let them have a small amount of alcohol here and there as well.

By the way - for those with the sweet tooth: Chocatinis are to die for! :D

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Jake Ellison, you are making the assumption that anyone who uses an opiate is an addict. You've bought the old line irrational reasoning that the far left and christian right have foisted on the public since their racist propaganda from the early 20th century. Certainly there a many addicts hose lives are ruined by opiates, and there are 10 times as many with alcohol. Also, alcohol impairs your motor judgments and can exacerbate ones emotions to where one often times can become aggressive, manic, melancholy, etc. I have yet to see those effects on opiate users. If you want to talk about liver damage you may want to research alcohol a little more deeply. "Addiction" as such is soley predicated on an individuals behaviour and pre-disposition. Just because of stigma's attached to certain drugs doesn't mean that they are less evil than legal ones.

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I enjoy drinking once in a while and I really don't see anything wrong with it. It's relaxing, I like experimenting with different mixed drinks (but I hate wine). Basically I think that as long as you can control yourself and not get wasted every day of the week, then it's perfectly fine. I would argue that it's perfectly rational to engage in activities that you enjoy, including drinking.

Jake Ellison, you are making the assumption that anyone who uses an opiate is an addict.

I agree.

Edited by skap35
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I find that in real life, most Objectivists do drink. I don't find anything at all wrong with it. The ones I have seen (and the kind I am), don't get falling down throwing up drunk, but see nothing wrong with enjoying a margarita or 3.

I think their is a puritan strain of Objectivism (the cause is debatable) that is much more prevalent online than it is in real life.

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The bottom line as I see it:

If you are drinking because of the alcohol part - the numbness, not because you like the taste of the drink, you are seeking pleasure from subduing your mind. Then you are "enjoying" life through the premise of death, and that looks like a contradiction to me.

I think this argument falls on the fact that you can enjoy the alcohol part without seeking pleasure from subduing your mind. The alcohol part can for example be enjoyable because it makes you more relaxed, comfortable and often more open and talkative. Sure, some inhibitions might be subdued, but you can choose to stay in control and still act rational. The fact that the alcohol makes you dumber can be regarded as a negative side effect, rather than the purpose of drinking.

This is what I enjoy with the alcohol part of it. It makes some social interactions more fun, and once in a while it's fun to just kick back, relax, have a few drinks and enjoy myself(prefferably with some good company, but a little wine and listening to some good music on own is not half-bad either). I don't particarly like the getting dumber part, but I don't have to be at my sharpest all the time either so under the right circumstances. The point is, I enjoy the alcohol, but i'm not seeking pleasure from subduing my mind.

I might add that I also like the taste of beer, wine, scotch and some drinks('sex on the beach' is probably my favorite ;) ).

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Roland,

I should have had a barista workshop with you! :) I am a tea drinker, but I had to learn how to make good espresso coffee when I started Blue Chip Café & Business Center.

All the Best,

Martin

I can handle coffee, but only if I put inordinate amounts of sugar into it. This weekend, I had a latte with some friends visiting London in the cafe in the basement of St. Paul's Cathedral. I first put two sugars in it, then tasted it and found it hopelessly bitter. I kept adding sugar and even dropped two chunks of Belgian chocolate into it, but it was still too bitter. It was after 5 or 6 sugars plus the chocolate that I finally found it sweet enough.

Just the night before, the friend had observed that there are those who drink coffee with sugar and there are those who drink sugar with coffee. I am definitely of the latter type: if it ain't sweet, I don't care for it!

Edited by EGO
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I drink both wine and beer (especially from micro breweries). I have seen reports on the health benefits of drinking one glass of (red) wine per day. It has to do with something called flavonoids and antioxidants.

Have a glass of wine and read my post, Wine Freedom Weblog.

Cheers!

All the Best,

Martin Lindeskog

I read a study where they had two group of men: one drank 4 beers per night, the other drank 4 glasses of wine.

The guys who drank 4 glasses of beer per night significantly reduced the amount of chemicals in their body that are bad for the heart.

Therefore, I do have some beers at night.

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