KendallJ Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 http://picasaweb.google.com/kendall.justin...834967960300386 The whole first page of the Elections subforum is filled with discussion on this year's race. After all that talk, it doesn't mean anything unless you do something. Snerd, the polls are open till 8. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) Snerd, the polls are open till 8. I will. For me, it's too convenient to ignore. I have to pass the polling place on my way back from work, and it's on my side of the raod, and parking is easy and it's a short walk from the car. Today will be Guiliani. (I swore many months ago that I've never vote for him --- and I still feel the same way about him --- and I'll vote for him. Not good for my sense of benevolence, what? ) Edited January 15, 2008 by softwareNerd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendallJ Posted January 15, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 Today will be Guiliani. That's two of us I guess. The one the fundies won't be voting for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softwareNerd Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 FYI, for folks from other states.... The Democrat primary is not counted in Michigan anyway. So, voting in the Republican primary is a no-brainer. The only question is which GOP person gets one's vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammon Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 http://picasaweb.google.com/kendall.justin...834967960300386 This link isn't working for me. I saw this thread and forgot it was "super-tuesday" ... it is super-tuesday right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-Mac Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 (edited) I'm all confused, so I guess I won't vote for the first time in my life. In addition, I changed my party affiliation from Republican to unaffiliated, so I don't even think I can vote in a primary??? I'm not sure, I'm so new to Colorado that I'm not sure how it works here, and frankly, I guess I don't care anymore. How sad is that? I'm just really not looking forward to the Democratic Convention being here and screwing up my commute. Although the hippy/people watching should be fun. Edited January 15, 2008 by K-Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammon Posted January 15, 2008 Report Share Posted January 15, 2008 I'm all confused, so I guess I won't vote for the first time in my life. In addition, I changed my party affiliation from Republican to unaffiliated, so I don't even think I can vote in a primary??? I'm not sure, I'm so new to Colorado that I'm not sure how it works here, and frankly, I guess I don't care anymore. How sad is that? Just strap a cross to your chest, and wrap an American flag around your back and they will take one look at you and say "Yeah, she looks like she belongs here!" I'm just really not looking forward to the Democratic Convention being here and screwing up my commute. Although the hippy/people watching should be fun. They might be great people, plus last time I checked te hippy people were voting for Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
athena glaukopis Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 This link isn't working for me. I saw this thread and forgot it was "super-tuesday" ... it is super-tuesday right? No, Super tuesday is February 5th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammon Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 No, Super tuesday is February 5th. Okay. I walked by a class today and the professor said it was super-tuesday. Not a very good source. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) I'm all confused, so I guess I won't vote for the first time in my life. In addition, I changed my party affiliation from Republican to unaffiliated, so I don't even think I can vote in a primary??? Kelly, it was my understanding too, that we can only vote in the general election, since the primaries, as far as my understanding is (which isn't much), can only involve registered members of a particular party voting for who they want to be their presidential candidate. I thought it was paramount not to be registered to any of the political parties of today, but be registered as unaffiliated voters. Of secondary importance would then be voting the lesser of evils. How are any of you even able to vote in these elections...unless you are...registered members of a party? I really hope I am wrong, and misunderstanding something, or this will be changing my views on some folks here. edit to add: "Did you?", for me it's more like "Will you?" when the primaries are in my state I think on April 22, 2008...my answer: FUCK NO. Maybe I'll show my pride that day in my decision too, and I'll take a picture of the sticker that I won't be wearing that day, because I didn't vote... Edited January 16, 2008 by intellectualammo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadkat Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 I already voted. I love the way New Hampshire does primaries: unaffiliated voters can vote in either primary (but just one obviously), and then unregister for that party right after (which I did). Ron Paul 08, sirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) I already voted. I love the way New Hampshire does primaries: unaffiliated voters can vote in either primary (but just one obviously), and then unregister for that party right after (which I did). That doesn't make sense to me. Does that mean you are an unaffiliated voter, then you register to a party quickly, then after voting, unregister from that party, and become an unaffiliated voter once again? Edited January 16, 2008 by intellectualammo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Kelly, it was my understanding too, that we can only vote in the general election, since the primaries, as far as my understanding is (which isn't much), can only involve registered members of a particular party voting for who they want to be their presidential candidate. Different states have different rules. IIRC Colorado lets unaffiliated voters declare an affiliation on primary day, then vote in that primary. Frankly since they are all turds I see no reason to waste my time choosing one over the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 Frankly since they are all turds I see no reason to waste my time choosing one over the other. Right, or for me, joining a political party of today for any amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendallJ Posted January 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 (edited) That doesn't make sense to me. Does that mean you are an unaffiliated voter, then you register to a party quickly, then after voting, unregister from that party, and become an unaffiliated voter once again? In Michigan you walk in and choose your ballot. I thought it was paramount not to be registered to any of the political parties of today, but be registered as unaffiliated voters. Of secondary importance would then be voting the lesser of evils. How are any of you even able to vote in these elections...unless you are...registered members of a party? Well, I'm following this guy's analysis. Seriously though, I woudl think who you vote for, rather than the affiliation you declared when you voted would be of paramount importance. I haven't heard anyone advocate that one shouldn't register with a party yet. Not donate to it, maybe. Edited January 16, 2008 by KendallJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted January 16, 2008 Report Share Posted January 16, 2008 In Michigan you walk in and choose your ballot. Thanks, Kendall, I'll see what the rules are for unaffiliatd voters in PA. Are you an unaffiliated voter? Well, I'm following this guy's analysis. I not only followed that guy's advice in the last election, but also that guys answer to a question on his website, about joining the political parties of today, which can be found around a third of the way down this page. And also this guy Andrew Lewis writes a response to a question on whether it is immoral to join a political party or not, though it's dated 1999. Seriously though, I woudl think who you vote for, rather than the affiliation you declared when you voted would be of paramount importance. I don't like using the words "vote for" when I vote, but not being a part of a poitical party of today is paramount to me. I have stated this again and again on this forum about calling for a mass exiting from the political parties of today, or just not joining any when you register to vote, and I also see now that Dr. Peikoff says (not in those words) something similar and with a reason why in said answer to a question on his site. I haven't heard anyone advocate that one shouldn't register with a party yet. Not donate to it, maybe. No? Read his answer and see if you would agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 17, 2008 Report Share Posted January 17, 2008 What do you mean you voted already? where do all of you live? and if so many of you's live in NH or in Iowa or Wyoming, why did giuliani lose by so much? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendallJ Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Michigan primary. This past Tuesday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KendallJ Posted January 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Thanks, Kendall, I'll see what the rules are for unaffiliatd voters in PA. Are you an unaffiliated voter? I not only followed that guy's advice in the last election, but also that guys answer to a question on his website, about joining the political parties of today, which can be found around a third of the way down this page. And also this guy Andrew Lewis writes a response to a question on whether it is immoral to join a political party or not, though it's dated 1999. I don't like using the words "vote for" when I vote, but not being a part of a poitical party of today is paramount to me. I have stated this again and again on this forum about calling for a mass exiting from the political parties of today, or just not joining any when you register to vote, and I also see now that Dr. Peikoff says (not in those words) something similar and with a reason why in said answer to a question on his site. No? Read his answer and see if you would agree. Hi Steve, I read through both Peikoff's responses and Andrew Lewis' essay. I particularly identify with this portion of Lewis, There may be tactical reasons for joining a party, e.g., to oppose a particularly vicious candidate or policy. For example, joining the Republican Party to oppose George W. Bush today -- or in 1992 to oppose his father -- would be such a step. If you read through the analysis I linked you to, which is my analysis of Peikoff's statements in the last election, I probably side with Lewis on this point. In that analysis I advocated voting in primaries specifically to tactically combat the worst fo the worst in today's political parties. My vote in the primary is against Huckabee and other religionists like him. The nature of the primary - general system in the US makes this a viable strategy I think. Peikoff writes, By present evidence, there is no hope for the Republicans, and no advantage for an Objectivist to remain registered as one. I believe that a man can have more impact by leaving a party, and thereby fostering its public shrinkage, than by staying in to make changes from the inside, an inside which is rotten to the core. In my opinion, the best classification for one to adopt politically is Independent. He and Lewis appear to disagree on this point, and Lewis may have since changed his stance. This strategy of abdication of a party one thinks is rotten to the core is interestingly like Rand's strategy of isolation of Soviet Russia. Soviet Russia did implode under it's own weight from such isolation, but what it has been replaced with as a result of it rotting from the inside out is not significantly better, as Putin now slowly creeps toward dictatorship. Fundamentally, I agree with Lewis on this point, Objectivism holds that the most important means of changing a culture is through education, particularly in the realm of basic philosophic ideas. America is no longer guided by its founding premises. The same basic philosophy shared by socialism and religion -- altruism and collectivism -- augmented by progressive education, has created a population that believes increasingly in opinion polls, self-sacrifice, and service to the group. This is why we have the political parties and candidates that we do. To change the parties, we need to re-learn and spread the basic ideas upon which America was founded: the right to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness. This is a slow process, and rather than abdicate a party to the worst of its influence, I would prefer stasis between the two parties to allow for the right ideas to take hold in each. If you imagine a tug of war between the right and the left. The proper direction is to move the whole playing field sideways toward the right ideas. I dont think membership in a party contributes as much to it's "public shrinkage" as the direction of your vote, and abdication of a party in the general election and abdication of it in the primary are two decidedly different things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benpercent Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I didn't vote because I didn't register in time, and also I live in Michigan, this year's almost meaningless primary. I still haven't figured out who I find the most agreeable, so my voting position is questionable anyhow. Used to like Ron Paul, that is, until I found out his views are libertarian-like and that he was careless with his past newsletters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty McFly Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 well, when feb 5 comes around I will definitely try to vote!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleph_0 Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 Kelly, it was my understanding too, that we can only vote in the general election, since the primaries, as far as my understanding is (which isn't much), can only involve registered members of a particular party voting for who they want to be their presidential candidate. I thought it was paramount not to be registered to any of the political parties of today, but be registered as unaffiliated voters. Of secondary importance would then be voting the lesser of evils. How are any of you even able to vote in these elections...unless you are...registered members of a party? I really hope I am wrong, and misunderstanding something, or this will be changing my views on some folks here. edit to add: "Did you?", for me it's more like "Will you?" when the primaries are in my state I think on April 22, 2008...my answer: FUCK NO. Maybe I'll show my pride that day in my decision too, and I'll take a picture of the sticker that I won't be wearing that day, because I didn't vote... How mildly amusing considering both our previous... disagreement, and the fact that I will actually be voting in the primaries this year. I know, our differences concerned the Congressional elections, but there's still a skoch (sp?) of irony. Just a skoch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 I dont think membership in a party contributes as much to it's "public shrinkage" as the direction of your vote[...] Kendall, this is the exact point in which our disagreement begins. [...]and abdication of a party in the general election and abdication of it in the primary are two decidedly different things. Yes. With the primary, correct me if I am wrong, you have to join a party in order to vote, and in the general election you don't have to, in order to defend yourself against the greater evil. I do think that it should be decisions made inside the party itself, (that's what these are for, right?) of which I will not join in order to vote. Perhaps I am erring on the practical side of it...that's the only place I see error possiblly occuring in, on my part. Morally speaking, I can't even pronounce the word "join" let alone actually do it... Plus, I still have to see what the rules are here in PA for unaffiliated voters. Did you have to join (register) to a party to vote? Or perhaps...you already were a registered member... skoch (sp?) skoch or scoch - I found entries for both spellings in the Urban Dictionary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themadkat Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 That doesn't make sense to me. Does that mean you are an unaffiliated voter, then you register to a party quickly, then after voting, unregister from that party, and become an unaffiliated voter once again? Yes, that is exactly what it means. I walked into the polling place an independent, asked for a Republican ballot, had an R next to my name for about 4 minutes (barf), then promptly asked the nice lady at the door to make me unaffiliated again, which she did. I love New Hampshire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
intellectualammo Posted January 18, 2008 Report Share Posted January 18, 2008 (edited) Yes, that is exactly what it means. I walked into the polling place an independent, asked for a Republican ballot, had an R next to my name for about 4 minutes (barf), then promptly asked the nice lady at the door to make me unaffiliated again, which she did. I love New Hampshire. If I were to joi... Let me try that again. If I were to joi... Sorry, I just can't say it, morally speaking. If I were to do what you did, I would have to come to terms with the practicality of it, to be able to do it. I just don't see that with this primary, only with general elections. I think I might send Dr. Peikoff an email and see if he has any advice on the coming primaries, and on primaries as such. [edit: I just sent him one, though he actually addresses it indirectly speaking with party politics and such discussed in his podcast #5, but not directly on the subject of the coming primaries and primaries as such, but I think it's totally applicable, nonetheless] Edited January 18, 2008 by intellectualammo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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