An "Atlas Shrugged approach" to our society

[axxxel]

Hi everybody! This is my first post at this site, which I just found by googling "forum objectivism".

Presentation of myself

My name is Axel Nordberg. I will turn nineteen tomorrow, sunday, and I live in Sweden. Withing the next few months I will graduate from what is the equivialent of high school, and move on to studying machine engineering at a local university. I've wanted to design firearms since I was much more of a kid than I am today, and that is what I wish to use my education for.

I started making philosophical conclusions when I was about ten, long before I knew what philosophy was or got interested in politics and such matters. When I was sixteen I had been moderately active in a right wing youth organisation for about a year, and my friend told me about Ayn Rand and gave me a one-sentence description of objectivism. My response was "Hey, that's what I've been thinking all along".

I didn't actually start to read her work until years later, but now I've read Atlas Shrugged several times and today I'm a convinced objectivist, still studying essays and trying to root out what differs me from ARI and Ayn Rand (there are a few details that make me smell contradiction).

The actual topic

Until this week I've believed that the best way to change the course of the world is to politically and democratically oppose the current regime of my nation and others, promoting libertarian parties(*) with objectivist foundations in order to try and change peoples' minds. I imagined that if at least an objectivist/libertarian(*) party could become a major force in the political world of a country, society could be saved before it collapsed into a totalitarian, exhausted pile of junk. The average voter would be constantly exposed to a reasoning alternative to the mockery that is politics today, and eventually everybody would come to their senses and we could all live happily and freely.

Recently I've noticed, however, how extremely reluctant people are to accepting valid arguments, and how very, very far below ground level people have buried their brains. Today I heard that the European Union will be enforcing a new passport policy, requiring fingerprints and eye scans in order to prevent terrorism and illegal immigration. The United States is decaying into another Europe. Last week there was a newscast story about rising pasta production costs in Italy, which is heightening living costs for families with children. A number of politicians from a multitude of countries and different social councils were interviewed, urging businessmen not to take advantage of the unfair situation by raising prices.

Tonight, as I walked home from a party, I have become completely convinced that society as we know it actually will end the same way it does in Atlas Shrugged. I might sound naive, but it just makes way too much sense to be wrong. I've always pictured my political life the following years to involve activism withing (The Swedish, and tiny) political party called "The Classically Liberal Party", but now I think the best thing to do is just to avoid paying taxes and trying to strain the economy of the government as much as ethically possible.

AFAIK this approach is not endorsed by any objectivist organisations (but then again I've pretty much ignored them for a long time), and I wonder why. If I make a carreer in this country more than 50%(propably much more) of what I produce will go to the government. Why should I fuel it? Gaining even a thousand votes for a party that has a view on government coherent with objectivism is worth nothing compared to what the ultimate collapse of a welfare state would be. Violent revolution/reactionary activism is very questionable, as the chance of success and risk of collateral damage are both to our disadvantage.

Excuse me if my English is flawed, it's not my first language and I've had quite a bit to drink tonight.

(*) It's complicated, but there are political organisations that would be best described as libertarian, whose founders are objectivists.

Edited February 16, 2008 by axxxel

[DavidOdden]

AFAIK this approach is not endorsed by any objectivist organisations (but then again I've pretty much ignored them for a long time), and I wonder why.

I suppose it's because most of us do not think that there is nothing left to live for in this society. Admittedly, most of us don't live in Sweden. You shouldn't think in terms living to fuel an evil socialist juggernaut, you should think in terms of living for your own sake, pursuing your own values. Can you not do that? If not, why not exercise your right to emigrate?

[axxxel]

I suppose it's because most of us do not think that there is nothing left to live for in this society. Admittedly, most of us don't live in Sweden. You shouldn't think in terms living to fuel an evil socialist juggernaut, you should think in terms of living for your own sake, pursuing your own values. Can you not do that? If not, why not exercise your right to emigrate?

This is my primary plan. I want to go to the US, but I'm getting more and more skeptical about the future of that nation. The next POTUS might hurry things up even more, and by then I'll be wondering why I left in the first place.

EDIT: My point is that eventually, all of us will live in Sweden.

Edited February 16, 2008 by axxxel

[DavidOdden]

My point is that eventually, all of us will live in Sweden.

I don't think that's inevitable. For instance, Norway has intermittently applied the socialism brakes especially when things get ridiculous -- comparing 2000 and 2007, I'd say life in Norway is significantly freer. The UK made an abrupt about-face starting a couple decades ago and while they still have a long ways to go, there is now competition even on rail service. The news isn't all bad. In the meantime, one source of optimism that I have is that there are zillions of young folks like yourself who don't immediately and unquestioningly accept the socialist bromides of the past, who in 20 years will be making the new policies that limit and even contract the welfare state and the limitations on free enterprise.

[Sir Andrew]

EDIT: My point is that eventually, all of us will live in Sweden.

You, sir, need to move to Texas.

[softwareNerd]

Axxxel, Welcome to OO.net.

One problem with trying to live below the view of the tax-man is that it can restrict one's choices. For instance, it might well be that the best career options, given your personal values and choices, involve working in the "organized" sector. To stay away from such a career could well mean giving up a value. So, one has to weigh it against the other value gained (by staying away).

Draining money from the system is probably the least effective way to fight it, because it is not supported primarily by money. Consider this crazy hypothetical: suppose a hundred Objectivists were to commit suicide to remove themselves and their product from society. What would change? In the context of the world considered as a whole, virtually nothing.

It makes more sense to give primacy to what you want to achieve from life, and figure out how best to achieve your personal goals, without letting questions like "will the tax be higher" playing too high a role. (If you can immigrate to a country that is more free, and also better achieve your personal goals, that's a win-win.)

If you are really good in whatever profession you choose, you will probably earn well and gain the respect of others. Your money and that respect can probably do more for your activism goals than retiring from society. That is the ideal way to pursue one's personal goals while also doing all one can toward working for a moral society.

[Zip]

Axxxel, I feel your pain.

Welcome to OO.net

[01503]

Uh... guys... this thread is from February.

[Mensch]

Welcome Axxxel

I too sympathize with your sentiment of not wanting to support a collectivist system with your hard earned money. But as the posters above have mentioned already, depriving yourself to avoid being robbed is not the way.

I too am from Europe (Germany) and settled here in the US. Even though the trend at the moment in this country seems to run towards the more socialist ideology, it is probably never going to reach the level as it is or was previously in your country. The Americans as a whole have still the urge to be free and unhindered by their government, hence the strong support of gun ownership, guns to be not only used against criminals but also against a government that steps too far in controlling its citizens.

And this very mentality will in the end prevent guys like Obama to get all their visions materialized. There will be attempts, but there is no financing available for these "glorious" promises. I also think that the opposition will now rise to the occasion and turn this ship around in the next decade. I certainly prefer, even under these conditions now, to live here in the US versus Europe, where the mindset of collectivism is deeply ingrained.

[Haemp]

If I make a carreer in this country more than 50%(propably much more) of what I produce will go to the government. Why should I fuel it?

But why stay here? I'm a fellow Swede too, I know exactly what you are talking about, people always look the pragmatic way for every answer. I'm studying economy in Lund right now but the second I get my degree I'll be as far from this place as humanly possible.

Get out of this hell hole, become the best you can be, and show people that your way really does work - then people will listen.

Where will you be getting your engineering degree?

[Sir Andrew]

Uh... guys... this thread is from February.

In fairness, it was on the first page.