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Any Other Gay Objectivists Out There?

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How is gay/lesbian perjorative if it's what people want to be called?

I'm not sure that whether or not a term is preferred by a person or group of people is what makes it perjorative or not. The intent and the context of the usage is what makes it perjorative.

This kind of thinking worries me as it leads people to getting fired for saying something like "niggardly". The guy who used that term used it in the context as to how it is defined and other people took offense to it because they were ignorant to the word's meaning.

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This kind of thinking worries me as it leads people to getting fired for saying something like "niggardly". The guy who used that term used it in the context as to how it is defined and other people took offense to it because they were ignorant to the word's meaning.
Check out his clip of some black county commissioner taking offence to the obviously racist term: "Black Hole"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20a-exAW6qc

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My Realtor told me this past weekend that according to Realtor ethics, they can no longer say things like "walking path" or "starter home" when they write up ads. Because, don't you know - if you call something a "walking path" you're not being inclusive of those who can't walk(!) And, of course, since not everyone can afford bigger homes down the road, it's not fair to refer to some homes as "starter homes." :) I believe "empty nesters" is another term they can no longer use.

Edited by Tabitha
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"I don't have any problem using the term "homosexual" to describe myself because whenever I am using that word, I am speaking in the context of sexuality. It's not like whenever I discuss, say, the morality of taxation that I say "well, as a homosexual tax payer, I think..."

I would think that it would be difficult being gay in Salt Lake City. I’d imagine it would be like being Jewish in Tehran.

Edited by Rearden_Steel
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I would think that it would be difficult being gay in Salt Lake City.

A common misconception. I have heard it quoted that Salt Lake has the largest gay population per capita second only to San Francisco. For gay pide weekend in SLC, there is a big parade through downtown and the city hangs gay pride banners on all the lampposts downtown - then they turn over two city blocks including the city block that city hall itself sits on and the actual gay pride festival takes place right there surrounding city hall. Not only that but SLC elects democratic mayors. Utah = conservative. Salt Lake City = liberal. In fact the city has been at such odds with the conservative Mormon church that they took one dispute a few years ago all the way to the US Supreme Court. (The city won and the chuch lost.)

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A common misconception. I have heard it quoted that Salt Lake has the largest gay population per capita second only to San Francisco. For gay pide weekend in SLC, there is a big parade through downtown and the city hangs gay pride banners on all the lampposts downtown - then they turn over two city blocks including the city block that city hall itself sits on and the actual gay pride festival takes place right there surrounding city hall. Not only that but SLC elects democratic mayors. Utah = conservative. Salt Lake City = liberal. In fact the city has been at such odds with the conservative Mormon church that they took one dispute a few years ago all the way to the US Supreme Court. (The city won and the chuch lost.)

Well I'll be damned. I would have never guessed.

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  • 2 weeks later...
Well... it is HER philosophy. Who should we quote? Gilbert Gottfried?

It almost sounds like you are conceding that Objectivism is to be nothing other than quotations from Miss. Rand. The alternative would be to look to reality just as Miss. Rand did herself. To act in full dedication to reason, truth and reality, to act on one's own judgment is not, in contradiction with living the principles of Objectivism. To be an Objectivist on faith is worse than a contradiction in terms.

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It almost sounds like you are conceding that Objectivism is to be nothing other than quotations from Miss. Rand.

Kevin is using the term as Rand wanted it to be used - to describe truths about reality identified by her - which does not mean that it is an exhaustive set (something she never claimed).

The alternative would be to look to reality just as Miss. Rand did herself.

That is the right approach but truths identified by others are not Objectivism.

To act in full dedication to reason, truth and reality, to act on one's own judgment is not, in contradiction with living the principles of Objectivism.

It is not but that can mean much more than what she wrote in terms of truths. For example, I believe that one of the most helpful things we can do for those we care about (children, lovers, friends) is to not accept their inapproprietely restricted views of their limitations. This is not Objectivism (it would not be accurate to call it so) yet it is one of the greatest wisdoms of which there are many more.

Edited by ~Sophia~
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Well howdy, I also happen to be a gay person and an objectivist. I personally see no conflict between homosexuality and objectivism, and I'd like to say that while I don't think over-population will ever be a problem for the reasonable man, I do think that homosexuality is an unsung factor in many predictions of future dystopias. When humans reach the point where previous societal training on sexual behavior, (ie.: Sex is bad, wrong, gross, shouldn't be done in certain ways, mostly a dirty secret, very similar to expelling waste) then the world will be a much better place.

As far as labeling. Homosexual is what I am. I find my opinion of a particular person's view on homosexuality is based more on body language and tone than the actual word used. My other homosexual friends and I all call eachother 'fags' on occasion for instance, thus turning a symbol of hatred and polarization used to categorize a group of people into an affectionate term proving to the Nazis and any other oppressors of individual human rights that I refuse to take offense to words which unintelligent people wish to use as insults. If someone uncomfortably, with a pause, and a shift of stance says 'homosexual', it is far more telling of that person's personal opinions than if one had just continued with saying 'homosexual' as part of a sentence with no emphasis on the word at all. I am proud of who I am, homosexual happens to be a label by which pieces of my personality and individuality may be translated to other people. Thus I believe the right answer to the question, "What is your sexual orientation?", or any question attempting to group or categorize me is "I am me."

Ranting aside, this is my first post and I should introduce myself. I am Tom Jones (Yes, real name) and I live in Tustin, People's Republic of California, I have read Atlas Shrugged and Anthem. I enjoy playing videogames, and my goal is to write stories for videogames and movies. I am very pleased to find another community of objectivists, as each one restores a tiny bit of hope that I am not alone in the dark.

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Ranting aside, this is my first post and I should introduce myself. I am Tom Jones (Yes, real name) and I live in Tustin, People's Republic of California, I have read Atlas Shrugged and Anthem. I enjoy playing videogames, and my goal is to write stories for videogames and movies. I am very pleased to find another community of objectivists, as each one restores a tiny bit of hope that I am not alone in the dark.
Welcome to the forum, Jackethan. There are loads of Objectivists around. In addition to OO.net, you should check out the Objectivist blogosphere!
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  • 1 month later...
Yes, "slash words" are cumbersome. I can buy that, though I'm not sure semantic laziness is a good enough reason to abandon it entirely. Rational lesbians (myself included) couldn't care less whether they're called gay or lesbian. For what it's worth, I don't know why "lesbian" even needs to be a word (what function does it serve?), but there ya go.

<snip>

And for myself, "homosexual" conjures up the rightwing Christian mindset, or as I said the "homo" playground insults, which in practice is just as collectivist as the "GLBT" stuff. Which, by the way, I am also against for the reasons you mentioned... and then some. "Gay" is not the same as the GLBT nonsense, and that's where I personally draw the line.

I think there's a language gender bias involved in gay vs. lesbian. As you've noted, "gay" can refer to only gay men, or both men and women. It's much the same way "man" can refer to mankind (both genders) or just males.

I find the lack of neutral gender frustrating sometimes. Especially in OPAR, where "man" is used extensively to mean mankind or a human. I found myself replacing pronouns like crazy while working on my summary, because the principles apply equally to both men and women, but I would consistently think of a male.

Not that it affects the pronoun issue, but I'm a gay man - I mean, gay male!

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  • 1 month later...

Well, this can also serve as an introduction to this forum but am as well a gay objectivist. I actually found this guy on youtube who is a homojectivist soo i stalk i mean talk to him quite a bit. But yes ... never alone.

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  • 4 weeks later...
Gilbert can be pretty funny at times. The point was that "we" students tend to use her phraseology instead of our own. Hence, the use of the term "homosexual" and not "gay" or "lesbian." Many discussions among Objectists seem to have an air of biblical scholars quoting scripture at each other; and I hasten to add that this one does not. ES.

I think her use of the word is also a sign of the times. For example in AS the word gay is used but in the "old" meaning when people used is as another word for happy (or similar meaning).

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