Rule of Reason Blog Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 By Nicholas Provenzo from The Rule of Reason,cross-posted by MetaBlog It is stories like this one that highlight the absolute horrors of mysticism in American life: Police are investigating an 11-year-old girl's death from an undiagnosed, treatable form of diabetes after her parents chose to pray for her rather than take her to a doctor. An autopsy showed Madeline Neumann died Sunday of diabetic ketoacidosis, a condition that left too little insulin in her body, Everest Metro Police Chief Dan Vergin said. She had probably been ill for about a month, suffering symptoms such as nausea, vomiting, excessive thirst, loss of appetite and weakness, the chief said Wednesday, noting that he expects to complete the investigation by Friday and forward the results to the district attorney. The girl's mother, Leilani Neumann, said that she and her family believe in the Bible and that healing comes from God, but that they do not belong to an organized religion or faith, are not fanatics and have nothing against doctors. [ Robert Imrie, Associated Press Writer] That is, Ms. Neumann has nothing against doctors except when it came to calling upon one to treat her daughter's plainly obvious and easily manageable condition. Yet consider for a moment just what evidence Neumann had to conclude that "healing comes from God." This claim is nothing more than unfounded faith, utterly devoid of any reason or proof. In contrast, modern medicine is nothing more than the scientific method applied to physical health—the process of systematically identifying and obeying nature so as to be able to properly command it. And here we have abundant proof that science makes human life better; after all, our entire modern civilization, from CAT Scans to iPhones, is built upon the practical benefits of this truth. So how on earth could Madeline Neumann's parents conclude that God alone would save their daughter and that medical science was unneeded? Just how much evidence did they (and let's be honest, their daughter too) willfully choose to ignore in order to engage in their deadly flight of mystic fancy? And most importantly, what cultural forces led them to such a horrific conclusion, and why were they unwilling to act upon the proper (and seemingly obvious) alternative? As this story develops, it will be interesting to learn just how Neumann's parents were able to internally rationalize such an outrage. In the mean time, we are faced with a very troubling truth: in a nation where the practical benefits of reason, science and technology surround us, seemingly everyday Americans are nevertheless willing to engage in Stone-age mysticism and irrationality—and do so at the price of precious human life. Even if there is tremendous outcry against these parents, I can't help but take the fact that this girl died in the first pace as a troubling sign. http://ObjectivismOnline.com/archives/003455.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 They will justify it in thier own minds by repeating the mantra "It was God's will." These cases are infuriating. Thier prayer cure never works. It looks like they would have learned something by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'kian Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Thier prayer cure never works. It looks like they would have learned something by now. No, it doesn't. But sometimes it's bound to seem as though it does. The human immune system is capable of astonishing feats. Not all infections are deadly, be they viral or bacterial. Children in particular tend to beat infections more easily than adults in some cases. Therefore you'll ahve cases where a child gets sick, the parents pray, the child recovers, and they lay all the credit on God. That the child would have gotten better regardless of prayer doesn't enter their minds. That the child would have gotten better sooner with medical treatment doesn't enter their minds either. There are also temporary physiological conditions not caused by infection or disease, like colic, that will get better on their own. Pray for such and you can conclude prayer worked, or God was moved to heal, or some other such nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve D'Ippolito Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Notice that faith healers, prayer, Lourdes, etc. only work for things that might have gotten better anyway. Point this out to make it clear: Never a regrown limb. Ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 No one resurrected from the dead either. Although medical science has brought back people from clinical death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'kian Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 No one resurrected from the dead either. No. But there are a myriad old stories about people who were presumed dead and later awoke mostly well. No doubt some of these were the result of ignorance. Others may have been cases of comma, etc. No doubt a great many of these happened after countless hours fo prayer, and so.... Although medical science has brought back people from clinical death. You can even make the claim this is done routinely. Several procedures require the heart to be stopped, and the patient hooked up to a heart-lung machine. Essentially the patient is "killed" and eventually revived. But of course that's not what you mean. I suppose you allude to occasions where a patient's heart stops on its own, and is coaxed back into action by medical procedures. That does happen, but it's not as common as popular medical TV shows make it out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TuringAI Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 The fact is that these parents are murderers. There is no room for mistreating children, either with abuse or neglect, in a free, Capitalist society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMaci Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 and let's be honest, their daughter too Actually, we have nothing to go on in that regards. We have no reason to believe the daugther was willfully ignorant. She may in fact of been pleading to be taken to the doctors for all we know. Or for her parents to do something to help her. Or any number of other possibilities, including her parents blinding her in regards to the truth of the matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiberTodd Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 "Hey our house is on fire." "I know, lets pray so that God puts the fire out!" 10 minutes later "Hmmm, our house is completely gone now. It must've been part of God's plan that we lose it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 " "Hmmm, our house is completely gone now. It must've been part of God's plan that we lose it." "Yes dear, it was God's will." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RationalBiker Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 It looks like they would have learned something by now. No, they didn't learn a thing. They stated the reason prayer didn't help was because they didn't have enough faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zip Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 No, they didn't learn a thing. They stated the reason prayer didn't help was because they didn't have enough faith. Lets just hope that their faith tells them not to procreate again so that they are removed from the gene pool. Better yet, don't give them the choice. Send them to jails at opposite ends of the country and deny conjugal visits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMaci Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 No, they didn't learn a thing. They stated the reason prayer didn't help was because they didn't have enough faith. Worse yet they claim that if they keep praying their daughter can still be resurrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thales Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 No, they didn't learn a thing. They stated the reason prayer didn't help was because they didn't have enough faith. If they did face the reality they'd have to admit they are murderers of their own daughter, so it's probably less likely they'll face reality now. I'd just like to add that I don't blame the daughter at all in this. 11 years old is very young. Parents usually have a strong influence over a child of that age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMaci Posted April 1, 2008 Report Share Posted April 1, 2008 I'd just like to add that I don't blame the daughter at all in this. 11 years old is very young. Parents usually have a strong influence over a child of that age. That is very true. Very few children do what I did at the age of ten (I decided I had no one to look up to mentally and decided to try figure things out for myself) and it is understandable since they are only children and as such still have a lot of mental development to do. I can tell you from experience it is hard for one so young to try do on their own and when one does try one makes a lot of mistakes, as I figured out when I got older. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chops Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Parents being charged with Homicide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonMaci Posted April 30, 2008 Report Share Posted April 30, 2008 Parents being charged with Homicide. About time! They deserve it. What sucks though is the way they don't seem to care that they could get 25 years in jail. What is even worse though is that they still think they done nothing wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.