Shun friends who watch pirated dvds

[airborne]

I don't know about all of you but at my age and with my friends its quite common to watch or listen to pirated media. In such a situation, where no force is involved, are you being immoral by watching the dvds with your friends or staying at a party where pirated music is being played?

It would seem absolutely ridiculous and impractical to me to leave every party or friends place whenever this occurs but I cannot give any reasons as to why it is moral to stay. Am I not being a hypocrite if I refuse to download music/movies and then give moral sanction to my friends by watching? You cannot say you disagree with it and continue watching because that is also hypocritical.

You can't say you value your friendship more than reality/justice? No one is forcing you to listen so you can't claim it is a situation where no morality applies.

What is the thing to do? why? Objectivism is supposed to be practical so how is this situation handled?

[Clawg]

That depends on how you define your relationship with your friends. I would define a 'friend' as someone with whom I share similar values.

It's immoral if you actively join watching a pirated movie without buying the DVD, if you merely 'sit through' the movie you are not giving a moral sanction (although it's a waste of time then).

So, how do you want the relationship look like?

If you value your friends maybe you should try to buy a DVD for a party yourself. This way you can give a good example, select a movie that corresponds with your values and maybe get your friends into a discussion. If your 'friends' don't join then the question is what value you see in them.

[Marc K.]

If you value your friends maybe you should try to buy a DVD for a party yourself. This way you can give a good example, select a movie that corresponds with your values and maybe get your friends into a discussion. If your 'friends' don't join then the question is what value you see in them.

This is an excellent answer and (perhaps not coincidentally) I was going to suggest the same solution.

Bring your own CD or DVD and say: "why don't we watch this legally owned movie". For those who would rather watch a pirated film, hand them a pirate's eye patch -- start a discussion.

[DavidOdden]

Let's leave aside the question of whether you should storm out; what do you do to make your moral evaluation known? A simple statement like "Hey guys, isn't that a bit unethical" might, for the first time in their lives, make them think about their actions when it comes to other people's intellectual property.

[Ifat Glassman]

I don't know about all of you but at my age and with my friends its quite common to watch or listen to pirated media. In such a situation, where no force is involved, are you being immoral by watching the dvds with your friends or staying at a party where pirated music is being played?

It would seem absolutely ridiculous and impractical to me to leave every party or friends place whenever this occurs but I cannot give any reasons as to why it is moral to stay. Am I not being a hypocrite if I refuse to download music/movies and then give moral sanction to my friends by watching? You cannot say you disagree with it and continue watching because that is also hypocritical.

You can't say you value your friendship more than reality/justice? No one is forcing you to listen so you can't claim it is a situation where no morality applies.

What is the thing to do? why? Objectivism is supposed to be practical so how is this situation handled?

airborne, I am glad to see this change of approach from you regarding pirate stuff! You earned my respect. Also, I sense something very honest in your questions - honest primarily in your own mind, that makes you focus on these sort of questions and bring them here for further analysis.

First of all, I think you should not stop going to the parties until the value of not doing it is perfectly clear to you, and you are actually motivated to do it more than to attend those parties under those conditions.

So here is a question: what is the value you see in NOT downloading illegal music, for example? Does it promote your happiness? How?

[Ifat Glassman]

That depends on how you define your relationship with your friends. I would define a 'friend' as someone with whom I share similar values.

It's immoral if you actively join watching a pirated movie without buying the DVD, if you merely 'sit through' the movie you are not giving a moral sanction (although it's a waste of time then).

So, how do you want the relationship look like?

If you value your friends maybe you should try to buy a DVD for a party yourself. This way you can give a good example, select a movie that corresponds with your values and maybe get your friends into a discussion. If your 'friends' don't join then the question is what value you see in them.

(I added the bold emphasis)

Woof... you are too harsh, man. They could be good people for many other reasons, and they could be fun for him to spend time with. There was a time that I downloaded illegal music, and if someone just came to me and told me "this is not right, stop it", at the time I would not have enough knowledge to integrate the reasons for it.

[musenji]

Seconded, ifat...it took me two years after reading Rand's fiction (and a year after the non-fiction) to finally wake up to the fact that respecting copyright mattered.

I'm glad this issue was brought up because I've had the same trouble, and I've been inconsistent with how I applied the principle. Good friends have agreed not to play pirated music when I'm hanging out with them, even though they might do it on their own. And they know I won't listen to music files they try to send me.

I've constructed an argument for why it's bad, not just because it's violating rights, but that it's actually bad for the person doing the pirating. The essence of the argument is that they're reinforcing, in their own minds, that the world owes them happiness, that happiness doesn't (or shouldn't) require effort or exchange on their part. And when happiness finally does require effort, they're going to be less psychologically able to pursue it because a part of them thinks it should be easier. One acquaintance, who I can safely assume listened to a ton of pirated music, said "You know, I never really looked at it that way." I don't know if she stopped, but that in itself was rewarding to me.