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Going insane at home

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ManOfSteel

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Hey guys,

This isn't a pity post. I'm looking for advice from a bunch of objectivist thinkers as to how I should best address this scenario.

Here's my situation:

In my house there is myself, my brother and my parents. I am the only one who is technologically-able.

If a computer breaks or the TV doesn't work, I am expected to fix it.

This has caused many arguments in the house over the years, as I expect them to eventually take the initiative to learn and become independant. To not have to call on me every time the internet stops working (which is often). Alas, they don't, and for the last 8 years I have been Mr. Fix-It of the home. If I don't fix whatever is not working, it will lead to severe nagging, which eventually leads to the inevitable argument. I always end up fixing the problem because it's far less painful than having the argument. At first when I was younger I never used to mind too much, but I've had enough. I get asked at least once a day how to fix something and often receive phone calls when I'm out with friends as well.

My brother and mother (who primarilly use the computer) believe that I have a duty to fix the internet/computer (or anything else) for them. My brother's argument being that I am his brother and if I needed his help, he would provide it. The funny thing is, I've never asked for a single thing from him in my entire life. If he ever wants to help me, cool, but he musn't feel obligated because of our blood-links.

I don't mind helping my mother as much (even though it becomes irritating as a daily occurance), but I recognise that she does a lot for me, so I feel like in a sense, I'm saying thank you.

My brother is another story though. He is the laziest person I know. At home, he expects everyone to do things for him. Cook, clean etc. And if they don't, they get a mouth-full.

I've had to block him on my instant messaging program, because while he's at work, he'll message me asking me to do silly little favours for him on a daily basis.

I expect no favours from anyone, but everyone seems to expect them from me. It has gotten to the point where I no longer enjoy doing favours for my family anymore. In fact, I usually end up resenting them for it. I get nothing but displeasure from doing them. Probably because I feel exploted.

I do consider myself someone of strong objectivist beliefs and I obviously understand that this scenario is absolute BS. I have discussed it with him before. That I wasn't born with a contract in my hand obligating me to serve him for the rest of his life should he be in need. I wouldn't expect anything of him and should he wish to help me, it should be out of his own free will. This just doesn't seem to process.

As much as I can't deal with this anymore, I'd rather not have a serious fall-out with my family members. At the same time, I don't want to live my life with family who expect me to be at their beck and call 24/7 whenever something like the internet isn't working, which I promise, is at LEAST once a day. This is no exaggeration.

Is anyone able to provide me with advice as to what I should do? They need to change their mindset. I can't cope with this neediness anymore.

Thanks :-/

Edited by ManOfSteel
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Remind yourself that for your mom, you're doing it for all she does for you. And tell her that when you help your brother that you're also doing that for her since he's too useless to ever return the favor. Then just ignore their requests when you're busy with anything important.

Their mindset is ultimately their business, and while you want it to improve because you care about them, they'll only change if they want to. So fixing that is really no more your business than fixing their internet. In other words, try to do it while you still live with them, but don't drive yourself crazy with it. And once you move out, it becomes up to them.

Start reminding them that you won't be around forever to help them with these things and that when you move out, you won't make special trips. Get them used to the idea.

That's how I'd try to cope if I were in your shoes, anyhow.

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Remind yourself that for your mom, you're doing it for all she does for you. And tell her that when you help your brother that you're also doing that for her since he's too useless to ever return the favor. Then just ignore their requests when you're busy with anything important.

Their mindset is ultimately their business, and while you want it to improve because you care about them, they'll only change if they want to. So fixing that is really no more your business than fixing their internet. In other words, try to do it while you still live with them, but don't drive yourself crazy with it. And once you move out, it becomes up to them.

Start reminding them that you won't be around forever to help them with these things and that when you move out, you won't make special trips. Get them used to the idea.

That's how I'd try to cope if I were in your shoes, anyhow.

Yeh, my mom has been saying to everyone for ages, "I dont know how we're going to survive when he's gone!", but that really doesn't change anything. I think she's quite used to that idea.

I understand that changing their mindset isn't my business at all, but at the same time, I don't see a long-term relationship with my brother if he doesn't change his ways and stop expecting things from me.

If I choose not to help him with something, he sees it as extremely unfair and will obviously use the "Dont ever ask for anything from me" (not that I really ever do). I even fear he'll go as far as damaging something of mine if I dont eventually do it. That's the kind of reason (or lack thereof) I'm dealing with.

It's all good and well to say that I'm helping him as a favour to my mother, but when you feel exploited because he lacks the initiative to figure out something for himself, you feel the need to say NO sometimes.

Also, if my mom asks for my help with something and I say "I'm busy", it goes through one ear and out the other and I'll hear her call my name a second later again.

This usually gets me quite riled up and I end up shouting and obviously then get accused of being rude.

As much as I can sit her down and explain that "I'm busy" means I cant attend to her problem at present, a week later she'll forget we even had the discussion.

Man...after typing this all out, it sounds like we need counselling! We're not an unhappy family though. I'm just unhappy in my current situation.

My mom chose to be a housewife from the day my brother was born and hasn't worked since. She has devoted her life to her children. I obviously don't agree with this choice anymore because we're old enough to now care for ourselves. I have told her on many occasions to try find something to really keep her busy on a day-to-day basis, but she insists she's now too old to get a real job. I'm not going to argue with her about it though. She must do whatever makes her happy. I just think that being a full-time mother has lent to her not minding my brother expecting her to do everything for him. I on the other hand obviously do mind.

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I understand that changing their mindset isn't my business at all, but at the same time, I don't see a long-term relationship with my brother if he doesn't change his ways and stop expecting things from me.

But that's really his problem, isn't it? Don't let it frustrate you.

If I choose not to help him with something, he sees it as extremely unfair and will obviously use the "Dont ever ask for anything from me" (not that I really ever do). I even fear he'll go as far as damaging something of mine if I dont eventually do it. That's the kind of reason (or lack thereof) I'm dealing with.

He just needs a reminder of who is helping who. "Oi! I'll help you when I'm good and ready and if you don't like it, then maybe you would like it better if I didn't help at all? No? I didn't think so. Now shut your gob and wait your bloody turn!"

Also, if my mom asks for my help with something and I say "I'm busy", it goes through one ear and out the other and I'll hear her call my name a second later again.

Yeah I've dealt with that too. Just get used to repeating yourself and being a little bit rude, since that's the only thing that gets through. Don't worry about it, because a mentality that will forget things so easily won't hold a grudge either.

Guilt her, too. Remind her about her discussion and how she promised to respect you. And what's she doing breaking her promises? Nothing and I mean nothing will make this type remember, but at least you can bat them off with that every now and then.

Just remember - their foolishness is their own. It's not yours and you're under no obligation to care about it. Just think of yourself as some kind of police negotiator who deals with crazy people. If you simply think of them as mad instead of working yourself up about how they ought to know better, then you'll be less stressed. And eventually, you'll be out of there anyhow. Helps to remember that.

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Hey guys,

This isn't a pity post. I'm looking for advice from a bunch of objectivist thinkers as to how I should best address this scenario.

Here's my situation:

In my house there is myself, my brother and my parents. I am the only one who is technologically-able.

If a computer breaks or the TV doesn't work, I am expected to fix it.

This has caused many arguments in the house over the years, as I expect them to eventually take the initiative to learn and become independant. To not have to call on me every time the internet stops working (which is often). Alas, they don't, and for the last 8 years I have been Mr. Fix-It of the home. If I don't fix whatever is not working, it will lead to severe nagging, which eventually leads to the inevitable argument. I always end up fixing the problem because it's far less painful than having the argument. At first when I was younger I never used to mind too much, but I've had enough. I get asked at least once a day how to fix something and often receive phone calls when I'm out with friends as well.

My brother and mother (who primarilly use the computer) believe that I have a duty to fix the internet/computer (or anything else) for them. My brother's argument being that I am his brother and if I needed his help, he would provide it. The funny thing is, I've never asked for a single thing from him in my entire life. If he ever wants to help me, cool, but he musn't feel obligated because of our blood-links.

I don't mind helping my mother as much (even though it becomes irritating as a daily occurance), but I recognise that she does a lot for me, so I feel like in a sense, I'm saying thank you.

My brother is another story though. He is the laziest person I know. At home, he expects everyone to do things for him. Cook, clean etc. And if they don't, they get a mouth-full.

I've had to block him on my instant messaging program, because while he's at work, he'll message me asking me to do silly little favours for him on a daily basis.

I expect no favours from anyone, but everyone seems to expect them from me. It has gotten to the point where I no longer enjoy doing favours for my family anymore. In fact, I usually end up resenting them for it. I get nothing but displeasure from doing them. Probably because I feel exploted.

I do consider myself someone of strong objectivist beliefs and I obviously understand that this scenario is absolute BS. I have discussed it with him before. That I wasn't born with a contract in my hand obligating me to serve him for the rest of his life should he be in need. I wouldn't expect anything of him and should he wish to help me, it should be out of his own free will. This just doesn't seem to process.

As much as I can't deal with this anymore, I'd rather not have a serious fall-out with my family members. At the same time, I don't want to live my life with family who expect me to be at their beck and call 24/7 whenever something like the internet isn't working, which I promise, is at LEAST once a day. This is no exaggeration.

Is anyone able to provide me with advice as to what I should do? They need to change their mindset. I can't cope with this neediness anymore.

Thanks :-/

If I were you, I would start charging 4 dollars and hour to the members of your family for every time they use your service. If they refuse to pay, then don't fix it. That should put things into perspective for them. :lol:

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Awesome, thanks Inspector! B)

<quote>If I were you, I would start charging 4 dollars and hour to the members of your family for every time they use your service. If they refuse to pay, then don't fix it. That should put things into perspective for them. :lol: </quote>

I've actually considered that. Might just do that.

Cheers

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How ironic.

ManOfSteel, I don't know how old you are but my simplest advice is... Get out of the house Reardon!

What's ironic?

And yeh, I've made plans to get out. Applied to continue my studies in the USA in Fall, so if all goes to plan (and I get accepted), hopefully that'll happen.

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but what is Reardon?

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ManOfSteel:

I have been in a similar situation to yours. Anything technical that required repair or fixing was my responsibility(it all started when I decided I wanted to build my own computer). I once even had family friends ask me to fix their computer, and I did, only to later have them accusing me of destroying it!

From then on I just pretended to have no clue. ever. I forgot everything. "hmm, gee, I really don't know how to fix this". And if I was harassed at home I would kindly show them a help file and struggle to understand its contents along with them.

I no longer waste my time fixing anyones computers or doing anything of that sort. I help when it is needed, but I never spend hours doing work someone else should be or is capable of doing.

Edited by airborne
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What's ironic?

And yeh, I've made plans to get out. Applied to continue my studies in the USA in Fall, so if all goes to plan (and I get accepted), hopefully that'll happen.

Excuse my apparent ignorance, but what is Reardon?

Hank Reardon

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Um, folks, it's Hank Rearden.

Oh, and trying to charge the next time he is called upon could lead to being reminded that he is getting his room and board for "free".

Where is that... Oh, here it is. :dough:

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Oh, and trying to charge the next time he is called upon could lead to being reminded that he is getting his room and board for "free".

Bingo.

It's important to remember something here, if you're of the age where you can legally move out, then your parents have no legal requirement to keep you in the house. Regardless, the cost of your room and board is undoubtedly paid for by the chores your parents make you do. That's just how it works. Once you're out of the house, then they have no more moral expectation for you to fulfill every little request of theirs.

Or you could offer to pay rent in exchange for not being bugged with every little detail.

When I lived with my parents, I paid for internet, and gave them a percentage of the electricity bill (worked out to about $100 a month total). If you paid for the internet, then you can let them know that the internet is yours and you'll fix it when you get to it.

Just remember that a cheap apartment in a crappy area will cost you $400/month + utilities, so you need to weigh the costs against the benefit: Would you rather pay several hundred dollars a month and pay for your own food, or fix the internet a few times a month for your mom?

How many hours per month do you spend fixing things at the house? Consider, even if you're spending 20 hours per month (a VERY high estimate), that works out to at least $20/hour. More likely, you're spending 4-8 hours per month fixing things, which is at least $50-100 per hour.

Remember, you need to consider the complete context.

Edited by Chops
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Sorry folks. I didn't mean charge my parents. Charging them would be a little ridiculous.

I meant charge my brother.

And yeh, I haven't read Atlas Shrugged yet :blush: Only The Fountainhead.

I've started reading Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, but I'm thinking I should skip though it until I've read Atlas first.

I'm still relatively new to Objectivism (been studying the philosophy properly for the last 7-9 months).

Before then I had never even heard of Ayn Rand.

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Hey guys,

This isn't a pity post. I'm looking for advice from a bunch of objectivist thinkers as to how I should best address this scenario.

Here's my situation:

In my house there is myself, my brother and my parents. I am the only one who is technologically-able.

If a computer breaks or the TV doesn't work, I am expected to fix it.

This has caused many arguments in the house over the years, as I expect them to eventually take the initiative to learn and become independant. To not have to call on me every time the internet stops working (which is often). Alas, they don't, and for the last 8 years I have been Mr. Fix-It of the home. If I don't fix whatever is not working, it will lead to severe nagging, which eventually leads to the inevitable argument. I always end up fixing the problem because it's far less painful than having the argument. At first when I was younger I never used to mind too much, but I've had enough. I get asked at least once a day how to fix something and often receive phone calls when I'm out with friends as well.

My brother and mother (who primarilly use the computer) believe that I have a duty to fix the internet/computer (or anything else) for them. My brother's argument being that I am his brother and if I needed his help, he would provide it. The funny thing is, I've never asked for a single thing from him in my entire life. If he ever wants to help me, cool, but he musn't feel obligated because of our blood-links.

I don't mind helping my mother as much (even though it becomes irritating as a daily occurance), but I recognise that she does a lot for me, so I feel like in a sense, I'm saying thank you.

My brother is another story though. He is the laziest person I know. At home, he expects everyone to do things for him. Cook, clean etc. And if they don't, they get a mouth-full.

I've had to block him on my instant messaging program, because while he's at work, he'll message me asking me to do silly little favours for him on a daily basis.

I expect no favours from anyone, but everyone seems to expect them from me. It has gotten to the point where I no longer enjoy doing favours for my family anymore. In fact, I usually end up resenting them for it. I get nothing but displeasure from doing them. Probably because I feel exploted.

I do consider myself someone of strong objectivist beliefs and I obviously understand that this scenario is absolute BS. I have discussed it with him before. That I wasn't born with a contract in my hand obligating me to serve him for the rest of his life should he be in need. I wouldn't expect anything of him and should he wish to help me, it should be out of his own free will. This just doesn't seem to process.

As much as I can't deal with this anymore, I'd rather not have a serious fall-out with my family members. At the same time, I don't want to live my life with family who expect me to be at their beck and call 24/7 whenever something like the internet isn't working, which I promise, is at LEAST once a day. This is no exaggeration.

Is anyone able to provide me with advice as to what I should do? They need to change their mindset. I can't cope with this neediness anymore.

Thanks :-/

I guess you should ask yourself if you want to get paid, do you want more acknowledgment of your greatness from your family, or if you truly just want to be left alone.

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I guess you should ask yourself if you want to get paid, do you want more acknowledgment of your greatness from your family, or if you truly just want to be left alone.

This is a distorted way of looking at it. Charging his mother is a terrible idea. This is not Hank Rearden who is supporting his parasitic family - this is a young man whose family is supporting him. He would be a hypocrite and an ingrate to approach the matter from that angle.

Instead of trying to pigeon-hole this into some piece of fiction or preconceived romantic notion of producers and parasites, how about we actually keep the frickin context of what's happening?

Just because this is a more personal topic does not eliminate the purpose of this forum - which is to provide quality, well-thought-out answers about and applications of Objectivism, not the knee-jerk reactions of everyone who cares to chime in.

Think before posting, people! Have you actually been in this situation or something quite similar? Have you dealt successfully with people like this? Do you really think your advice is valuable, or are you just guessing based on a vague notion?

I've seen other forums fall apart because mass numbers of decidedly non-experts felt absolutely free to just blurt out their random opinions on anything and everything. Let's not do that here please.

Edited by Inspector
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