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Albert Hofmann, the Father of LSD, Dies at 102

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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/world/eu...amp;oref=slogin

I wanted to draw attention to this story because it illustrates some ridiculous amounts of backwardness in our culture. This man, who invented LSD was called the smartest living person back in 2007! The list itself is atrocious, but why all the fuss about the man who invented LSD? Oh, he gave us some wonderful philosophical truths like...

"I share the belief of many of my contemporaries that the spiritual crisis pervading all spheres of Western industrial society can be remedied only by a change in our world view. We shall have to shift from the materialistic, dualistic belief that people and their environment are separate, toward a new conciousness of an all-encompassing reality, which embraces the experiencing ego, a reality in which people feel their oneness with animate nature and all of creation."

WoWoooooWWoooohhhaaa mmmmmmaaaannnnnnn like WHOA! That's like, THE TRUTH OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE mmmmmmaaannnnnnn.... it's like, in my head mannnnnnnnnnnnnn.....

Great, this guy is the progenator of the "destroy your brain to use your brain" line of thinking, and he provided the tools to do it. And yet, he is being herald as a genius. What does that tell you?

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Great, this guy is the progenator of the "destroy your brain to use your brain" line of thinking, and he provided the tools to do it. And yet, he is being herald as a genius. What does that tell you?

That whoever called him valuable at all is retarded.

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The entire list is really pretty awful. Most of the choices don't even make sense. By what warped definition were they judging genius? It seems like for a lot of the list they're just using genius as a synonym for success, regardless of the person's intellectual standing.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/30/world/eu...amp;oref=slogin

I wanted to draw attention to this story because it illustrates some ridiculous amounts of backwardness in our culture. This man, who invented LSD was called the smartest living person back in 2007! The list itself is atrocious, but why all the fuss about the man who invented LSD? Oh, he gave us some wonderful philosophical truths like...

WoWoooooWWoooohhhaaa mmmmmmaaaannnnnnn like WHOA! That's like, THE TRUTH OF THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE mmmmmmaaannnnnnn.... it's like, in my head mannnnnnnnnnnnnn.....

Great, this guy is the progenator of the "destroy your brain to use your brain" line of thinking, and he provided the tools to do it. And yet, he is being herald as a genius. What does that tell you?

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The entire list is really pretty awful. Most of the choices don't even make sense. By what warped definition were they judging genius? It seems like for a lot of the list they're just using genius as a synonym for success, regardless of the person's intellectual standing.

Yeah I know, I said it was atrocious (didn't know if you caught that). I mean, PRINCE!? PRINCE?! A GENIUS!? #34?!

No he isnt, whats your justification for this claim?

Pretty much what Darkwaters said. What's your reasoning for thinking he isn't?

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  • 4 weeks later...
How about because he advocated using LSD as a means of enhancing one's life.
Why is this an unreasonable claim? Timothy Leary reported pretty good results in his Harvard when he was using it for supervised behavior/thought modification.

I think youre confusing people who thought that LSD was a potentially useful tool to be used in a medical/psychiatric context under the guidelines of a trained professional, or otherwise used responsibly (which was the position of Hofmann/Leary etc), with people who promoted irrational recreational use (which both of those two opposed). You make it sound like Hofmann supported the hippy movement or something.

Some fairly smart people have believed hallucinogenics could have useful benefits when used responsibly (Aldous Huxley being a notable example). None of them supported irrational drug use or hippy lifestyles. Its not a binary choice between an entirely drug-free existence, and living as some kind of stoner.

Edited by eriatarka
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Sounds right to me. I'd say that qualifies him... as an idiot though, not the genius they think he is.

I wonder if any of the people who make claims like this have ever tried LSD, or any other psychedelics, lol. Tripping on LSD is no gateway to mystic insights, of course. But in my opinion, as someone who's tried it before (once, so far), I think it can be an entirely pleasant experience that can force a person temporarily out of the cage of his psychological defense mechanisms and see things from a fresh perspective--in a similar way one sees things differently in dreams, except, much easier to remember and integrate into his conscious perspective afterwards. And what's so bad about something that makes you laugh and laugh for hours.. It's fun. It doesn't necessarily "destroy your mind." Of course it does temporarily impair one's ability to reason--so does going to sleep. But it does have benefits (even, just, if it's a fun time) that could, i think, outway the negatives for some people in some contexts.

Yeah I know, I said it was atrocious (didn't know if you caught that). I mean, PRINCE!? PRINCE?! A GENIUS!? #34?!
Of course he is! You must have never heard Raspberry Beret.. Controversy.. Little Red Corvette... lol
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I wonder if any of the people who make claims like this have ever tried LSD, or any other psychedelics, lol. Tripping on LSD is no gateway to mystic insights, of course. But in my opinion, as someone who's tried it before (once, so far), I think it can be an entirely pleasant experience that can force a person temporarily out of the cage of his psychological defense mechanisms and see things from a fresh perspective--in a similar way one sees things differently in dreams, except, much easier to remember and integrate into his conscious perspective afterwards. And what's so bad about something that makes you laugh and laugh for hours.. It's fun. It doesn't necessarily "destroy your mind." Of course it does temporarily impair one's ability to reason--so does going to sleep. But it does have benefits (even, just, if it's a fun time) that could, i think, outway the negatives for some people in some contexts.

There is a certain kind of mistake that people make when they put "a good time" or "having fun" as a primary. Certain situations, mental states, etc., are fun due to your own subconscious and the emotional reactions it has automated. This is why, for example, a (completely) rational person does not enjoy getting wasted and passing out. The sensation of being drunk (unable to think clearly, drastically decreased motor skills, etc,) are not pleasurable to them. Meanwhile, a completely irrational person, who has little if any self-confidence, who fears the responsibility of thinking, might think the sensation of being wasted as the best feeling he could have.

Not making a direct comparison between you (or anyone who drinks or does drugs recreationally - there is such a thing as an honest mistake, after all) and the latter example. But the examples get to the heart of the issue.

Personally I know for sure I would find something that "made me laugh and laugh for hours" very much NOT fun at all. The reason is because I like being clear headed, I like thinking, and I don't see any reason to voluntarily enter a lower mental state (where silly/common things seem funny enough to laugh over, for example.)

That is why I have yet to hear of a recreational drug that I think is rational to use in that recreational context. They seem to fall into two categories, one that consists of a "good time" of mentral disintegration, and another that consists of a "good time" of a lot of energy/endorphins for a period followed by a longer crash period. The latter I can see as useful in certain emergency and near-emergency situations where one needs to stay up and alert for a period, but not recreationally.

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I wonder if any of the people who make claims like this have ever tried LSD, or any other psychedelics, lol. Tripping on LSD is no gateway to mystic insights, of course. But in my opinion, as someone who's tried it before (once, so far), I think it can be an entirely pleasant experience that can force a person temporarily out of the cage of his psychological defense mechanisms and see things from a fresh perspective--in a similar way one sees things differently in dreams, except, much easier to remember and integrate into his conscious perspective afterwards. And what's so bad about something that makes you laugh and laugh for hours.. It's fun. It doesn't necessarily "destroy your mind." Of course it does temporarily impair one's ability to reason--so does going to sleep. But it does have benefits (even, just, if it's a fun time) that could, i think, outway the negatives for some people in some contexts.

That's sort of the idea behind all drugs. It's just for fun. The only reason I drink is for fun and to help lighten up the social atmosphere. I'd never drink to solve my problems.

There is a rational approach to drugs. Except some drugs will destroy you no matter what, like cocaine. But, everyone probably already knows this

Of course he is! You must have never heard Raspberry Beret.. Controversy.. Little Red Corvette... lol

I have heard these songs, which is why I question the genius thing so much. :D

Speaking of musical geniuses, we haven't seen you around much boldstandard.

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There is a certain kind of mistake that people make when they put "a good time" or "having fun" as a primary. Certain situations, mental states, etc., are fun due to your own subconscious and the emotional reactions it has automated.

Sure, some people make that mistake. I didn't, though. I never said it was a primary.

This is why, for example, a (completely) rational person does not enjoy getting wasted and passing out. The sensation of being drunk (unable to think clearly, drastically decreased motor skills, etc,) are not pleasurable to them. Meanwhile, a completely irrational person, who has little if any self-confidence, who fears the responsibility of thinking, might think the sensation of being wasted as the best feeling he could have.

Those are not the only effects of alcohol.. Yes, someone would have to be irrational to get drunk for those reasons.. But who gets drunk for those reasons? "Yeah bro, lets throw back some beers so we can have decreased motor skills!" No.

Not making a direct comparison between you (or anyone who drinks or does drugs recreationally - there is such a thing as an honest mistake, after all) and the latter example. But the examples get to the heart of the issue.

There is a legitimate issue there--it's irrational to do drugs for irrational reasons. Many people are irrational and enjoy drugs as a response to their irrationality. But I disagree that *only* irrationality can make drugs pleasurable, or that people only do drugs for irrational reasons. I know it's kind of futile, because I usually make similar posts in similar threads and always get the same response, but still it bothers me to let the alternative view go unchallenged as if it's the only possible rational position.

Personally I know for sure I would find something that "made me laugh and laugh for hours" very much NOT fun at all.

Well, don't go to a comedy club! Unless it's Carrot Top or something.

The reason is because I like being clear headed, I like thinking, and I don't see any reason to voluntarily enter a lower mental state (where silly/common things seem funny enough to laugh over, for example.)

I like being clear headed and thinking, too. But I also like to see things in a different way--that's why the common things seem funny, when you're tripping. You make connections you never made before. You realize things and attributes about the common things you never noticed before, to the point they don't seem common anymore. It's like when Ayn Rand describes Ralston Holcombe as looking like a lion, with his big mane-like hair, in The Fountainhead. It's such a vivid, hilarious description. I (being quite sober) laughed for five minutes when I read that, because I could just picture it, and it seemed so like his character to look like that. I noticed things like that when I was tripping.. Connections and analogies between things I would normally not really think about. But, it's probably different for different people.

I like to explore my dreams. I'm fascinated by my subconscious mind. When I write songs, I'm often surprised by the things that come out of my own mind. I want to know what else is in there I don't know about. I know everything I've ever learned and everything I've ever experienced is in there somewhere. Sometimes all it takes is some subtle nudge to make a new connection that will end up having profound significance in my life and attitudes. I don't see anything irrational in that, at all. Drugs aren't the only way to do that, of course.. I try to do it all the time. But they do deliver different unexpected results sometimes. So once in a while I think they're okay.

There is a rational approach to drugs. Except some drugs will destroy you no matter what, like cocaine. But, everyone probably already knows this

Cocaine, destroy you no matter what? No, I don't think so even with that. Maybe, sniffing gas or glue or something like that would destroy a person no matter what. Lol.

The only reason I drink is for fun and to help lighten up the social atmosphere. I'd never drink to solve my problems.
But the social atmosphere not being light enough is a problem you're trying to solve, isn't it?

Speaking of musical geniuses, we haven't seen you around much boldstandard.
Thanks for the compliment. : ) Work has been busy, this year! June and July are the only slow months, and even in June I'm scheduled for about 13 days so far, which is still sort of busy for the summer time.
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  • 5 weeks later...

but LSD is basically synthesized argot toxine, unlike say a benzodiazepmine or an opioid, LSD has no medical nor rational use whatsoever.

Why isnt the guy who synthesized aspirin or heroin celebrated instead?

and why are most drug discoverers from central europe?

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but LSD is basically synthesized argot toxine, unlike say a benzodiazepmine or an opioid, LSD has no medical nor rational use whatsoever.
This has yet to be established.

and why are most drug discoverers from central europe?
Well Germany has probably contributed more to humanity in terms of science/art/culture/etc than any other country.

I dunno about the Swiss though.

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