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Nyronus

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I was asked to write an essay on "dating ethics" for my sociology class. This was my reasponse:

Maelstrom

There is no way to start this. No way to begin what is ultimately a long and painful tangle of this, thats, and the other things. The concept itself is absurd. Dating does not have its own personal ethical system. That makes it sound as if dating throws in special ethical considerations; as if dating allows one to act unethical, or visa versa.

"Dating ethics" is a pointless and frivolous term. How does one write rules of engagement for love? The answer is that one doesn't. Love is not something that is bound to a special set of rules, as if one can just say "Alright, if I am in love, I can now do this." Love is both a passionate and logical reaction of ones personal values to another human being. To lift another soul high within the citadel of your own mind and proclaim "This is all that I want!" That is love. Love is not static. It is a maelstrom, like Proteus, rising from sea of the developed human mind and changing its form as it flies from one end of the globe of thought to the other, but, unlike Proteus, love changes with you. Love IS you. What you love, what you hold high in value, is a reflection of that value.

Dating is a term we apply to the interaction of those who have begun to lift each other in value. As the scale of value shift in your mind, so does the behavior of the interaction. If you desire a conversationalist for a partner, then so be it. If one does not believe in receiving both sexual and emotional release in the same partner, as is common in some cultures, then so be it. That is a personal philosophy of love. Love is ultimately an overlapping term for all of the emotions that belong to this act of idolizing and enshrining another being as a reflection of your value. Dating is a petty thing to this. Dating is like dancing, moving one's feet is not the important thing, it is the passion and release that the dance brings that is important. What I find acceptable for dating is what I find acceptable for any human interaction. Truly though there are certain activities that some do not condone as "worthy" outside of romance. True, it would be hard for my personal self to engage in a sexual act outside of romance, but this is not because of some personal taboo against the act, but because I associate sexual release with emotional connection and release. Its really just not fun with someone you don't like. There is no empirical reason to avoid sex before "marriage," seeing as marriage is only a symbolic gesture to feelings one already has. Sex has the same consequences before and after your chosen God puts his rubber stamp on a relationship. It is only a emotional and rational drive to keep in a marriage once one removes divine superstition. One that can exist without the introduction of the transcendent in the first place. Not to mention that the so called dangers of sex are horribly misnamed and easily avoided.

Dating is an act, love is a journey. There is no ethics special to one act. The ethics of the journey though, those are the ethics of life. Which then is appropriate. For if love is what you are, then love is your life.

Edited by Nyronus
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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but some of the things you said warrant responses, so here goes:

Dating does not have its own personal ethical system. That makes it sound as if dating throws in special ethical considerations; as if dating allows one to act unethical, or visa versa.

There are no lists of concrete rules for dating, but to say dating does not involve ethics is a little troubling.

Dating, like all actions, requires a person to establish a set of morals that will guide you to your goal. Considering that your goal is presumably establishing a long-term relationship with someone, you must demonstrate the best in yourself and discover ways in which your interest can do the same. It's easier when (presumably) she's is a friend or acquaintance first than if she's someone you barely know, and it's easier if all you want is a casual relationship than if you're goal is marriage.

That's the context. The "rules" are of your choosing, but the general ethics must be based on a rational desire to be your best, be worthy of her admiration, and to admire the best within her. And, of course, your desire - and hers - must be selfish.

Love is both a passionate and logical reaction of ones personal values to another human being.

... which requires an ethical standard of your own to express.

The particular actions can change, of course, but the underlying desire to - as you say - lift each other up is the ethical standard upon which all behaviors rest.

As an example, early in a relationship I want to present myself in the best light possible, so I pay closer attention to my appearance and the appearance of my home. Once I've passed the point where these things seem trivial, a little clutter or skipping a day shaving is unimportant. I'm not a slob; cleanliness and orderliness are values of mine, but I can relax to a standard closer to my everyday "single" life and it won't count against me in any way.

The ethical standard - cleanliness, organization - is there all the time, but the context - impressing a potential lover - determines the level to which I pay attention to these things. It's not out of a sense of insecurity, nor would I be attracted long to a woman who would refuse to be seen with me if I'm not always dressed to the nines; it's because I want, for my sake, to feel and appear attractive (which isn't a high priority when I'm not "wookin' pa nub").

Edited by Lemuel
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Dating is a term we apply to the interaction of those who have begun to lift each other in value. As the scale of value shift in your mind, so does the behavior of the interaction.

That part I agreed to. All the rest struck me as subjectivism or whim-based. The fact that someone desires something in love is not necessarily reason enough to justify it. That reverses cause and effect. Value is causal, and the desires based upon values have specific natures.

I might suggest you take a look at Dan Edge's blog for some essays on the psycho-epsitemology of romance. Some here diagree with him, but they are generally coherent and well-written.

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I might suggest you take a look at Dan Edge's blog for some essays on the psycho-epsitemology of romance... they are generally coherent and well-written.

I must respectfully and emphatically agree with Kendall. :huh: Thanks for the plug, sir.

Here are a few articles of interest:

Opposite Sex Friendships

Meta-communication

The 'Cash Value' of Mind-Body Integration, Part 2

The Psycho-Epistemology of Sexuality (Parts 1-6)

The Benevolent People Premise and More

"Demoting" a Relationship

Initial Sexual Attraction

Love at First Sight

The Morality of Monogamy

--Dan Edge

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Perhaps I'm misunderstanding, but some of the things you said warrant responses, so here goes:

There are no lists of concrete rules for dating, but to say dating does not involve ethics is a little troubling.

Dating, like all actions, requires a person to establish a set of morals that will guide you to your goal. Considering that your goal is presumably establishing a long-term relationship with someone, you must demonstrate the best in yourself and discover ways in which your interest can do the same. It's easier when (presumably) she's is a friend or acquaintance first than if she's someone you barely know, and it's easier if all you want is a casual relationship than if you're goal is marriage.

That's the context. The "rules" are of your choosing, but the general ethics must be based on a rational desire to be your best, be worthy of her admiration, and to admire the best within her. And, of course, your desire - and hers - must be selfish.

... which requires an ethical standard of your own to express.

Which is what I was trying to say. My whole point is that it was silly for dating to have SPECIAL ethics.

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Which is what I was trying to say. My whole point is that it was silly for dating to have SPECIAL ethics.

Well, yes and no; some precision is required here. Every situation will, in one respect, have its "own" ethics because every situation is slightly different and you thus must apply proper ethical principles in a slightly different way. For instance, the methodology used for securing your property rights viz a viz your car is substantially different from the methodology used for securing your intellectual property rights to your writing.

It is wrong, however, to imply that dating (or any other activity) operates under an entirely different *system* of ethics that bears no relation to any other system. So, in that respect, your essay is making a legitimate point. In order to make that point, however, you should explain your assumption, i.e. that you are reading the question as making an incorrect implication and then refuting that implication. There's no reason not to do this; in fact many teachers enjoy reading essays that at least attempt to take a novel approach to a question, however the teacher is likely to be aware of the slanted implication and may give you a lower grade if you do not state your assumptions. Demonstrating awareness of your own assumptions is one way to impress most teachers.

Your writing reminds me a lot of my friend Enixyle, another forum member who is not particularly prolific. Maybe the two of you should exchange email. :P

Finally, my question: If you *were* to make the assumption that this question is asking about the particular application of ethics to dating, how would you go about it? What *are* some of the particulars of applying ethics to dating? What other interactions are most closely aligned with dating, and how does dating differ from them?

These are all questions that may be worth answering, too.

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I understand what you are saying, and I can see your point. It is true that one uses different tactics for different acts, but you (should) still be using the same rule book each time.

My teacher understood exactly what I meant when I wrote that essay, she even gave me bonus points. Most people just wrote about how relationships are base on honesty and trust and the like. I think I might have been the only person to have approached the question from a philosophically ethical point. So the points might have just been for originality (although 90% of it was reworked from Ayn Rand). She was impressed with the essay though. She thought it was very profound.

Your friend sounds interesting. Maybe I should.

Edit: I completely forgot the second half of your post.

How would one apply ethics to dating. Well, to begin with, you'd want to do something you both could enjoy. Being truthful from the start is probably key to keeping a relationship going. You should be respectful to your partner, but you should not be afraid to challenge or argue with them when they (or you) are wrong. While these things are important for most human interaction, they are probably more crucial to dating than anything else you can do.

I'm sorry if that response was somewhat small and vague. While I can ramble about the epistemology of being in love, I have very little experience with the act of dating.

Edited by Nyronus
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While I can ramble about the epistemology of being in love, I have very little experience with the act of dating.

Yeah, me too, I've only been on one formal "date" and I generally find shows such as Elimidate to be vile. In many respects, dating is like making plans to go out with a close friend, so that's a good place to start from. The procedure for making plans and communicating them is pretty much identical, as are the applicable rules of etiquette, such as be on time, be prepared, etc. Also the ethics about how you treat other people still apply, such as about honesty, fairness, integrity, etc.

Where the two situations differ is in the purpose of dating. While making plans with your friend is a way to enjoy and continue to develop an *existing* relationship, dating is about forming a new relationship--specifically one that you would like to be romantic in nature. As such, it behooves (snort) you to stress that aspect of the activity:

1. You have to be willing to volunteer personal or intimate information about yourself (not necessarily everything all at once, but if asked it is not polite to deliver a MYOB that would be appropriate in other circumstances).

2. You have to seek a setting that is both intimate and non-threatening. This means a public place where a measure of privacy is still possible, such as going to a restaurant, walking along a beach, etc. I personally don't like the idea of going to a movie, show, or concert on a date (even though I like movies, shows, and concerts), because they defeat the purpose of the date: instead of interacting with your date, you're watching the movie, show, or concert.

I'm sure there's more, but I think you have the idea.

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