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Maxine Waters would be all about social...social..taking over

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Well, I was going to eat my lunch, now I just feel like throwing up. :D

I mean, we knew this is how they were all along, but it just really hurts in the pit of my stomach to hear it finally out there like that.

Edit: Just thought of this...one of those oil execs should have shot back that the fact the government already regulates much of their business is the exact reason why prices are so high.

Edited by K-Mac
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We don't need to argue anymore when ppl say, "No, Liberals aren't about Gov't control!" - we've got video!

To be honest, we can't say this is the opinion of eveyone who calls themselves a "liberal" or is labeled as such because Joe Conserative thinks everyone who disagrees with him in the slightest is a "liberal"

But then again, I forgot some people around here hold that the Democrats are a telepathically linked group where one persons thoughts, words, and actions are the same as everyone elses.

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Ok, fair point - I'm sure they do not all feel that way. However, I have had people challenge me to find ONE elected representative who expressed a stateist view - and now I can show them hard proof. :D

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To be honest, we can't say this is the opinion of eveyone who calls themselves a "liberal" or is labeled as such because Joe Conserative thinks everyone who disagrees with him in the slightest is a "liberal"

I don’t think this is a valid argument. You’re drawing inferences without showing connections. After all, “Joe Conservative” could be right. You aren’t allowing for that.

Now, to be sure, conservatives often think that, but liberalism is an ideology and when the ideology is followed to the letter, you end up with complete government take over of our lives.

But then again, I forgot some people around here hold that the Democrats are a telepathically linked group where one persons thoughts, words, and actions are the same as everyone elses.

Just look at the news media, they're in lock stop on virtually every issue. We see it all of the time. How does that happen? Ideology is what links people. Fox News (non-leftist) is the exception that proves the rule.

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A bit of a side musing here ...

In U.S. Supreme Court jurisprudence there has been, since the New Deal, a "double standard" wherein certain rights (such as free speech and the right to vote) are deemed "fundamental", while economic rights are not so protected. What's interesting is the logical connection between the two sides of that double standard: the non-right of the producers to keep their property, and the corresponding right of the non-producers to take it from them at the ballot box (and with the help of a supportive leftist media). The double standard is the legal basis of socialism.

So how does this connect to this topic? I agree that "liberalism is an ideology and when the ideology is followed to the letter, you end up with complete government take over of our lives." The double standard is proof. Sure liberals are ostensibly about such classically liberal things as free speech and the right to vote - because so long as we have free elections in this country, those things are part of the mechanism whereby socialism is implemented. That, and only that, is why liberals care about those things - the right of the big guy to have his property taken, and the right of the little guy to take it from him with the greatest possible ease.

One of the great things I have found about a philosophy of rational egoism is its tendency to venerate great individuals over "the little guy", the guy who thinks he just can't make it in this world, who no longer wins the benefit of sympathy. In the words of Howard Roark, "I don't think of you". Amen. What we need is a new single standard for everyone: the right of all achievers to keep what they earn, the right of great people to be great, and the right of miserable people to be miserable, with no govenment spreading everyone's misery equally.

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To be honest, we can't say this is the opinion of eveyone who calls themselves a "liberal" or is labeled as such because Joe Conserative thinks everyone who disagrees with him in the slightest is a "liberal"

Not to mention that between "Compassionate," Big Government" and "Strong Government" conservatives, even the lip service paid to limited government is about to disappear. I can fully see conservatives nationalizing the oil industry, so long as they could get away with branding it "a market-based solution."

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Not to mention that between "Compassionate," Big Government" and "Strong Government" conservatives, even the lip service paid to limited government is about to disappear. I can fully see conservatives nationalizing the oil industry, so long as they could get away with branding it "a market-based solution."

Are you agreeing with the premise of Mammon's argument? If so, then I can't agree. Liberals do go in the same direction because of their ideological frame work. They are linked.

Regarding conservatives, you are right, but they are a separate issue.

A correction:

Just look at the news media, they're in lock stopon virtually every issue. We see it all of the time. How does that happen? Ideology is what links people. Fox News (non-leftist) is the exception that proves the rule.

"stop" in bold above should be "step".

Edited by Thales
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Are you agreeing with the premise of Mammon's argument?

I'm saying you can no longer brand someone as a liberal merely because he proposes government control of some industry, because conservatives increasingly propose similar measures.

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I'm saying you can no longer brand someone as a liberal merely because he proposes government control of some industry, because conservatives increasingly propose similar measures.

Yes, but I don't believe that was Mammon's point. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

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The clip is absolutely precious! Look how terrified she is that she let her guard down. Look how she realizes -- "Oops, that sort of slipped out!" -- and starts backpedaling and trying to think of a way to take back what's already on the record. Then watch her commit to it so she doesn't look like a waffler -- so it doesn't look like a mistake.

And the guy on her right just gives up in exasperation and the woman next to him covers her mouth and positively titters.

Best television I've seen all week.

~Q

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This is almost surreal in it's grotesqueness. It's shockingly... not shocking.

Yeah, it's hard to be shocked, considering the kind of rhetoric liberals put out on a daily basis.

And, btw, I think it is noteworthy that only Fox News found this newsworthy. What did I say about the liberal media being in "lock step"? Their ideology makes them look like telepaths.

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Great clip.

I usually refrain from calling liberals socialists because they dont advocate siezing control of industry...at least until now. I think what we saw here from Ms. Waters was a moment of candor: just what she would do if she had the power to do things her way. No doubt the brilliant Ms. Waters believes that she could run Shell better than its current CEO anyhow. After all, how hard could it be? I think liberals like Waters and almost certainly Obama, are socialists at heart. They just cant openly advocate it because they know that the average American still clings to some quaint notions of human liberty. So they just have to sneak it by us when we arent looking. What worries me is not that there are people like Waters out there, it is that there are more than we think.

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